Hilchos Zoreh: Spitting Into the Wind, Aerosol Sprays, Confetti, and the Definition of Winnowing

Transcript

Zohira, one of lamed tes melachos. In Shulchan Aruch, nothing, almost nothing is dedicated to the issur of zohira. Just one, one Yerushalmi brought, and even the Yerushalmi, we're soon going to learn, is not even so pashut. Paskening like that Yerushalmi, and the Mishnah Berurah brings it down as a kolacha yad in Shin Yud Tes, the last se'if, se'if katan, se'if katan samech ches, zohira. And going back on the Yerushalmi that the Rama quotes, that if someone spits into the wind, baruach mefazer hareik, chayav mishum zohira, chayav for zohira. So the Mishnah Berurah brings down the zohira, the tafuah b'resech, which is that pitchfork that they use, right, to winnow it, with a pitchfork throwing the tevuah up into the air, hu echad mi-lamed tes. So we have, it's kolacha yad at the end of Shin Yud Tes, made it to be mizakeh to the Shulchan Aruch, that there's an issur called zohira, and it's one of the lamed tes melachos. All right. The case, one case brought down in Shulchan Aruch: hareik beruach is chayav mishum zohira. And even this case, we're going to soon see that we don't really pasken like this case. You look at the Mishnah Berurah, se'if katan samech zayin, he says, v'lo ra'inu mi shechoshesh l'zeh. We don't find anyone that's choshesh for this. I guess the pshat is that people used to spit. In the old days, people used to spit a lot. If you hung around Russians, you'd know. You never know at any given moment, you could have gotten it in the, you know, you could have gotten a good spit, you know. Why? We're going to discuss it. That's the shaylah. What in that is zohira becomes the question of the day. It's a pele. We're going to learn this. And says the Mishnah Berurah, v'lo ra'inu mi shechoshesh l'zeh. Now, it's one thing, it's one thing, we have to talk about it. It's a very complicated topic. Point being that we don't find who's choshesh. Now, what does the Mishnah Berurah, I guess, mean? That you can do it. I guess that's what he means. Or he means, poskim are not choshesh. I don't know what he means by the—stam the, you know, by me everywhere in the Mishnah Berurah is kodesh kedoshim. Oh, so I don't know what he means. I'm saying, no, either it means that ain't choshesh means poskim are not choshesh for it, or maybe he means that the velt tut es. I don't know. Okay. It sounds like a halacha, but I have to speak it out. I'm saying, I agree with you, but I have to shtell what it means. Now, כיון דאינו מסכוין לכך, מצד... at the end of the shiur we're going to stress on those words a lot, because you see that he makes a condition out of it, that it's ein miskaven. So it's mashma if he is miskaven lkach, it would be a problem. We don't know. That's the shiur. We don't know what he's mechaven for exactly, so let's discuss it. Anyways, it becomes a kol shekein, d'ein ze derech zerirah. Now, what's the kol shekein? If this is no good because ein miskaven, so what's kol shekein? How does it read? It doesn't flow very well, right? לראינו מי שחושש לזה, כיון דאינו מתכוין לכך, קול שכן. So then you don't have to have miskaven; it's just not derech zerirah, so what do you want? What does the Mishnah Berurah want? Just say this is not derech zerirah. רוקק לרוח is not zerirah, so what does it have to— The ein miskaven lkach makes it that, oy vazai, it's bichlal not derech zerirah. Yeah, that's a little schwer. If you want to skip the kol, I have to explain myself. Okay. לראינו מי שחושש לזה, כיון דאינו מתכוין לכך. Bemefaretz b'roik, that action, we're not choshesh because people aren't miskaven. What do you mean they're miskaven? What do you mean they're not miskaven? Chochmah means they're not miskaven to do the separation. Right. So what's kol shekein? No, so—and being that they're not miskaven to make the separation, so I'm for sure this is not even zerirah. It's not derech zerirah. Kol shekein goes back on the ein miskaven. The action is mefarek b'roik. Maybe. Okay, so again, my job is to point out, because this is just the groundwork for a beautiful, beautiful mahalach that I'm going to say, which, I hold, is halacha l'maaseh, emes halacha l'maaseh. So again. Zayra, know that zayra is one olamitas. In Shulchan Aruch, it's almost not toivas makom. If I'm not mistaking, the poskim in three or four cases, which is not in Shulchan Aruch, we'll discuss them, because maybe we'll say that if it's not in Shulchan Aruch, maybe it's not so, maybe it's not aser. Even though they say it is aser, maybe it's not. Okay, no problem, no problem. No, I don't— okay, no, my mouth is dry. Okay, it's fine. I don't really care. Flavor is never the issue. The issue is only my mouth is— no, my mouth is dry. No problem. No, I'm saying, I don't— not a question of good or bad. If it fills the purpose, then it's very good. I'm sorry.

Anyways, the point being that the one case that is brought in Shulchan Aruch is zoreh of reik. And the Mishnah Berurah says, V'eino mi shechayish l'zeh, so either it means people, but pashtus means pask. Okay, kivan d'eino miskaven l'kach, which the diuk, of course, would be one is miskaven l'kach, and we don't even know what miskaven to what; we're not even sure yet what he's miskaven to. V'chol shekein d'ein ze derech zoreh, chiddush b'kiveiga v'ayin b'Biur Halacha, which we'll soon see the Biur Halacha, the Aruchos attacks this halacha, wants to prove that there's no problem of zoreh, i.e. Yerushalmi. How can you just do away with the Yerushalmi? They're going to learn a whole different pshat in the Yerushalmi. It's not chayav משום זורה; it's chayav משום זורק. It has to do with mavir daled amos ברשות הרבים, that if you spit, so you're being mavir daled, which is a pretty good shot, by the way. If a guy could do daled amos, not bad. Yeah, I hear they could do it. All right. Zorek means four daled amos, not ... ברשות הרבים. Yeah, that's what it says here, ברשות הרבים. Now, right, so let's see the teshuvas Reb Akiva Eiger that the Biur Halacha brings. Teshuvas Reb Akiva Eiger: mistapek b'shofech mayim otam b'tzluchis derech chalon. He throws it from a window, v'haruach mefazer ha-tipos echad poneh l'kan v'echad poneh l'kan, chayav משום זורה. Okay, v'helech tzadid, harbei l'hakel, he came out that it's l'hakel, mi'deShmuel paskin ... Yerushalmi. So maybe that's what I wanted to suggest, that that's what it means, l're'inu mi shechayish l'zeh. You see clearly that Reb Akiva Eiger meant that the paskin. You see from the Biur Halacha that he quotes Reb Akiva Eiger, he means the paskin. Ela d'vleches zoreh hu k'ein borer. Now let's point this out, because it's going to be a very key in the shiur, that zoreh has to do with borer, d'mevarer psoles mitoch ochel. Aval b'kulei p'sailus, eina chayev mishum zoreh. And of course the shayla would be that the Yerushalmi is mashma not that way. So according to Yerushalmi, it comes out that you can even have it when it's kulei p'sailus, right? The case of roik is kulei p'sailus. So if the case of roik is kulei p'sailus and it's still chayiv, so l'choira you have a machlokes if zoreh is like borer, or maybe zoreh is not like borer. I mean, that would be A plus B equals C. If the pshat is that you're arguing with the Yerushalmi because it has to be like borer, so it has to be p'sailes and ochel, mashenkin here it's kulei p'sailus, so the teretz according to Yerushalmi is not like borer, which we'll discuss the nafka minas halacha because of that. Point number two: what would be if it's kulei ochel? Does the Yerushalmi mean that it's zoreh because it's kulei p'sailus and af al pi kein it's chayiv? According to Yerushalmi, what happens if it's kulei ochel? Let's say zoreh is something which is completely good, nothing bad about it. Right, that's what Rav Moshe speaks about. Rav Moshe shtells it to in the teshuva. He says that even though by borer you can be mefazer, by zoreh it's no good to be mefazer. Rav Moshe shtells too, even though—because that's not leruach, right? And l'choira, we could declare that when it is leruach, that the Yerushalmi says by kulei p'sailus is aser, what would he hold by kulei tov? You want to know a good example, just to cheat, so to speak, in the shiur? Aerial sprays is a very nice shayla. You want to spray something into the air to make fresh. That's also not leruach. Okay, so that's what I'm going to pasken. That's something that I'm going to be a controversial pasken and say that, but the gedolim are not like that. The yeshivos atzal, they speak about the aerial spray that has to do with the start. And all the gedolim speak that it might be aser because it's Rama, and they try to dig out from the Rama that this might be a little different. Again, I jumped ahead only to bring you a case where it's kulei ochel, okay? So again, the Yerushalmi is mashma that by kuloi psoilus we'll say zoreh, even though by borer, kuloi psoilus is not. And that's one of the taanos that the Mishnah Berurah has, which quoting Reb Akiva Eiger. Since it's kuloi psoilus and it's domeh l'borer, so how could it be chayav? You need psoilus and ochel. Yerushalmi is mashma that we don't need kuloi psoilus and ochel. Even kuloi psoilus is also chayav. The shaila would be, according to Yerushalmi, what would be by kuloi ochel? Next part of the halacha: af l'das Ramba, yesh l'tzadedu dafka b'roik. Maybe it's only by roik. D'kemo d'ein dishu mamir ela b'gedulei karka, kein ein zoreh ela b'gedulei karka. And what's roik? Adam nikra gedulei karka, aval lo b'mayim, d'lo havi gedulei karka. So I never really understood this, because the truth is, borer is the same thing, right? Borer is one of the—it's the sidur of the pas. It's talking about on the same thing. You did zoreh and then you did borer. So if gedulei karka...

It's a tenai in zeiros, so why is it not a tenai in boir? I don't get this. This is something, I never understood this. This is something... Is that what the Kalkeles Shabbos brings? I don't know. Everyone said over the Kalkeles Shabbos holds stuff, but I can do the karka bikveiger. It's davka, they say this because—I'm saying this is where it comes from, Reb Akiva Eiger. Oh, this is it. This is it. He places the boir. Yeah, because they say this svara by boir, but I'm saying, but in the Mishnah Berurah we don't say it's davka by karka. You should mamash. Yeah, but what do you want from dishu mamash? What's wrong with boir? I don't understand. What's boir different than— No, no, no, I'm saying the kasha on boir is from dishu mamash. Yeah, I'm saying, whatever it is, yeah. Yeah, but I'm saying—so what's the tzad that— Yeah, okay, good, but that's the kasha. Okay, if you want to make the— Right. In other words, the same kasha would be when we learn dishu, the same kasha would be when we learn—Dishu is, why is he still doing zeiros to ma'amer and not boir? Right, okay, good, good, okay. That's just paperwork. It's the same kasha, in other words. I have a reason that it's davka this. Davka to boir, and we're saying it's different than boir. You'll soon see the—okay? So we're going to say, gevaldig, gevaldig, mahalach. Anyways, it's lo neicha lei. It's lo neicha lei, yeish matirin. So it comes out, according to this, by an aerial spray, which is neicha lei, you won't be able to dig it away from this Yerushalmi, right? If the whole reason why the Mishnah Berurah is cholek on this Yerushalmi is because of neicha lei, so where it is neicha lei, then you would have to apply it, unless you say two out of three is also good enough. The piskei ha'Rishonim bahandels. The Rishonim bahandels if two out of the three conditions: A, that it's gedulei karka, right? B, because it's kulo ochel and not pesoles, right? There's no pesoles. So they want to ta'ina that even though it's neicha lei, Mishnah Berurah grabbed the said attacking the Rama that it's lo neicha lei. But you don't need— Lo neichalei to make it that it's, that it's, that it's... lo neichalei to make it mutar. Even if it's neichalei, it would be mutar because it has the other two problems. It's not gidulei karka, and it's also not... It doesn't really— no, there's not really gidulei karka. Not really, not really. Because some of it could be natural. Yeah, you're asking good. We're going to get to it a little bit later. You know what it is? I first want to learn this, because the truth is, it's so easy because there's not much here. It's just here, here, and I found one other shtickel that you have to learn in the Mishnah Berurah. Earlier on, there's a shtickel zayin in the Mishnah Berurah, okay? Al kol panim, says the heilige Mishnah Berurah in the Biur Halacha, עיין של רבי סעיף א' מנשה פירש, הכוונה שירשלמי דהוא במעביר בעפר ברשות הרבים. That this Yerushalmi has nothing to do with zoreh; it has to do with mav'ir, על ידי רוח, והוא דאז דוגמה פירש, דכמוי בזורה, אף דהרוח מסייעתו. So it's just an example. Just like by zoreh, the ruach helps you, אף על פי חייב, כן ברוקק, דרוחאי, גם כן חייב. And that's what the Mishnah Berurah comes out l'maaseh. We don't pasken like this Rambam, okay? So just again, for the sake of clarity, let's go it over one more quick time, and then we can start working. We can start— get down to the nitty-gritty of this sugya. So again, zoreh is one of the lamed-tes melachos. That's se'if katan samech ches. הרוקק לרוח, as Yerushalmi. Pashut pshat in the Yerushalmi is that you're chayav for zoreh, and the word chayav is chayav, v'chayav. Chayav is mashma mamash chayav; that's mashma d'oraisa, lashon. That's exactly what I'm getting to. Did you learn the sugya before? You must have cheated, because you're stealing the whole shiur. That's my whole shiur. Okay. I'm gonna hack with this no kli because I don't get it. You'll soon see. Okay, okay. The kid says, so we have the halacha of chayiv. Chayiv is mashma chayiv; it's not stam, okay. Says the Mishnah Berurah that it's not choshesh for it, and we said that from Reb Kiveiger is mashma the poskim are not choshesh for it. What does he mean, eino mechaven bkach, and what's the kol shekein? Okay, we're gonna get to that a little bit later. Al kol panim, there's two reasons and a third. Let's say two and a third, which means a third reason why we're cholek on this Yerushalmi. The first reason is because it's kulei pesulos; it has to be like borer. Second reason is because it's gedolei karka; borer is only because it's gedolei karka, mashenkein anything else wouldn't apply. And the third thing we said was because it's lo neicha lei, so how can you be chayiv on something which is lo neicha lei? And therefore the Mishnah Berurah says it's talking about mavir breshus. So we clarified the Yerushalmi. Huh? What do you mean, shekein ein derech zoreh? Yeah, we don't know what that means, though. We don't mean shekein — it's not derech borer; we don't even know what it means. Maybe it's not derech zoreh because zoreh has to have pesulos. It's not clear what he means. Why is it not derech zoreh?

We don't have—what I'm saying, it's a blank. We have two blanks that we have to fill in. The first blank we have to fill in is, what does he mean, eino mechaven, and what does he mean is mechaven, and we don't know what he's mechaven for exactly. And the second thing is, kol shekein ein ze derech zeiru. For what? For the reasons of Rav Kiveiger, maybe, because it's no pesik reisha, maybe. That's what he means. So we clarified what would be in case. Okay. So according to this, something like we said, aerial spray, which is not pesik reisha at all, it's kulei oichel, would be mutar, right? The problem is, how do you have that the ruach is mefazer haroik? By the case of the aerial spray, it's not the ruach that's doing it. It's you pressing the button, and it's doing it. Unless, and I think in the Teshuvos R' Moshe he goes through this, it has to do with the ruach. The pressure is ruach. How does it work? You're a scientist. You're not a scientist. Give me how an aerial spray works. No? It's the pressure. It's the pressure. What's pressure? What's pressure? Yeah, it has to do with ruach. No, it has something to do with the— Yes. At least we call that ruach. I don't know if you call that ruach. Okay, so that's what I want to fill in. What does it mean, ruach? What's the lashon over there? V'haruach mefazer haroik. That's not what's pushing out the spray. Ruach is not pushing it out. Yeah, but you're taking air in, no? Let's say I would— No air is involved in the process? Let's say I wouldn't throw up something. Okay, so do me a favor, you look up the teshuva from R' Moshe. It's a pressurized can, and when you open it— Yeah, but pressurized ruach. No, it's not. Let's say I'm holding something in my hand, and I do like that. To shake something off. We’re gonna get to all that. Give me time. I’m saying, but that l’choira is—that’s this Mishnah Berurah later, earlier, that we didn’t touch on yet. There’s a Mishnah Berurah that the olam forgets to learn it when they learn zera; we’ll get to it, okay? But al kol panim, pashtus— I’m saying, a shaychus to this. Of course it’s shayach, yeah, because it’s not—you’re not throwing it up in the air. It’s not the ruach itself, but it’s something that ruach—something that the ruach is associated with. I always thought that the yeshivas teshuva had something to do with this. Look it up again. Like this, and I make pressure and shoots out—that’s not ruach. Yeah, but the pressure is air, no? It’s not an air pressure thing. You could pressurize the air with gas. But you don’t have gas in an aerosol spray thing, right? Of course you do. When a car goes— That air is not air compact. It could have air mixed into it, but it’s— If you’re in a car and you stick your hands out of the window, what’s going the other direction, the air? But he’s saying differently. He’s saying that by a can of spray, it’s not that. Rabosai, let’s not waste time. Point B, you like the kasha more than the teretz? Fine. I wrote this down. Yeah, b’kitzur, mi’ulaniyus daiti, ein shelo. D’be’ina varuach mefazero. I don’t see why an aerosol spray has to do with this. Aerosol spray is not ruach mefazero. L’maaseh, you look at the Aruch LaNer, he’s matir even point one. One is, like I told you, no psik reisha; two, it’s not kedei lekarka; ah, you don’t have the third condition of psik reisha lei nicha lei; two out of three is good enough. But I don’t know what that—is that true? Not really. Not really. It’s in that those two. I always thought regular sprays here. It's air, it's air. That's different. Oh. I hold that Rav Moshe was talking about that. Otherwise, it's not. It depends on if it's... So we're gonna pasken. You ready? It's one piece. It's the first piece, I think. I remember correctly, it's the first piece. It takes in air as it's spritzing. I mean, that's spritzing liquid. I thought spritzing liquid is not under pressure. There's no pressure. It's in one of them. It's over there by the... It takes in air and the air... It's an ayin daled somewhere over there. It'll say zoreh or it's under like... I don't know. It's under pressure. I don't know. There the air is under pressure to get out, because that's the little straw thing on the bottom. You found it? No, it's not the first... All right. Exactly. Okay, we're gonna pasken. You ready? We're gonna pasken. Yeshiva Zatzal held there's no problem with aerial sprays, but I'm gonna tell you that could be, could be, the ones that are air pressured, and it's the air somehow, then maybe it's different. Depends what type of thing. I think the spritzes are air. It could be the aerial sprays on that. I was thinking about it.

Let's move along, okay? You'll do the homework on your own. L'maaseh, the kasha is: why is it different than boirer? Boirer was also in the Mikdash, and it's on the same cheftz. We're talking about the same piece of tevuah. First you did zoreh, then you did boirer, so there's a tnai of gidulei karka. So how come we don't have the halacha of dafka gidulei karka by boirer? So I want to tie in a moirdige chiddush. Boirer, it's not the maaseh of boirer. It's the fact that you were boirer psoles mitoch ochel. So it really makes no difference what, because it's not about the what; it's about psoles and ochel. Mashenkein by zoreh—pay close attention—zoreh is not about the psoles and the ochel. Zoreh is the maaseh zoreh. It's being mefazer al yedei ruach. By boirer— It's not about how you do it. It's not about how; it's what you're doing. It's what you're doing. Mashenkein by zoreh, it's the maaseh, so it has to be domeh to the maaseh in the Mikdash. By boirer, it's the tikun ochel. You know what? Let's say it better. By boirer, it's the tikun ochel. By zoreh, it's the maaseh. You like it, huh? I'm gonna say a big chiddush. By zoreh, if it's just the maaseh, then why should it דווקא be psoles and ochel? Even— That's exactly what I just said. That's exactly what I'm telling you. That's the pshat. What's the pshat why even psoles and ochel? Hagufa, that's the teretz. You're right, in the Mikdash it was psoles and ochel, but who cares? That's not the point. And it could be even by oichel. It's the ma'aseh of zoreh. It's the ma'aseh of being mefazer dei ruach. But this, we could say a mechudash chiddush. Why is borer pesoles aser? Borer pesoles is aser because sof kol sof, you did the ma'aseh zoreh l'ruach. L'choira, we have a nice shaylah. What's the shaylah? The Mishnah Berurah brings down that how does zoreh work? V'zoreh es hatvuah b'reches l'ruach. What's reches? It's a keli. So l'choira, it would follow from this that it would have to be a kli. Why is it haroikek b'ruach b'Shabbos, there's no kli. Where's the kli here? So why is it considered a borer? Okay. So l'choira, I want to say an interesting insight, yeah? Nu, what do you want ta'inos? So I'm talking about things they use a kli with. Why? So they don't use a kli with them. Why? If that's the tzuras ha'melachah, if that's the tzuras ha'melachah, so it should be that it's haroik b'reches. It should... I'll show you what I want with this, yeah? Why is that important? Why is the reches important? It's inconsequential. Maybe a lot of farmers threw it up with their hands for all we know. It's easier with the reches; it was convenient. Derech zoreh b'kach. He definitely didn't spit it out of their mouth, right? What, teven? Teven growed there. Okay. I’ll show you what I want. I’ll show you what I want. Let’s take on that maybe, maybe, maybe biyad is not called a zoreh. I’ll show you what I’m trying to get at. What happens if the yad becomes the vehicle of the zoreh? The only way to get it up in the air? No. It’s not what you’re throwing it up, but the yad, let’s say, creates the wind. Yeah, yeah. I go like this. Huh? That’s like a ruach. You hold its ruach? Okay, let’s discuss this. Look at Shin Yud Tes se’if zayin. Let’s see Shin Yud Tes zayin. Okay. Howyu loi melilois me’erev Shabbos. Zayin. Howyu loi melilois me’erev Shabbos, lo yinafeh b’kanoi. Okay? What is kanon? Kanon is that the bellows. They used to have it in the trains, the bellows. That’s what a kanon is. Kli sherosho echad rachav v’hasheni asui kemin marzev, v’noisnin hakitniyos b’rosh harachav u’menanea oichel.

I'm seeing a different thing. Excuse me. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. The kanah? Yeah, no, the kanah I thought was this. Kanah v'tamchui. Yeah, kanah v'tamchui. This is different. Hayu lo melilos me'erev Shabbos lo yinafeh b'kanon. Look, maybe the wrong thing comes. It's kanech zayin amud. Kanech zayin. Sif kan chav zayin, chav zayin. Yeah, no, it's here, but I don't know why. Maybe the Shibur brings the case. Okay, let's see weiter. Again, hayu lo melilos me'erev Shabbos lo yinafeh b'kanon. Peirush, kli sheroish echad rachav v'sheni asui k'min marzev. B'kitzur, it's minanei oichlim misgalgel derech hamarzev, v'hapsoles nishar b'kli, which is a type of sifting keli. V'tamchui, peirush k'ara gedolah. V'loi bishtei yadav, ela menafeh b'yad echas b'chol kocho. All right, so you can't put it in two hands, but you can put it in one hand and blow as hard as you want. Uh-huh. What's melilos? Melilos is the kernels of wheat. What do they call that? Kernels. Kernels of wheat, yeah. Says the Mishnah Berurah, b'kanon v'tamchui, gezeirah because of nafeh b'kibor. V'loi bishtei yadav. The hainu, what's the story? Now pay close attention, rabosai, to the story. The hainu l'dabek shtei yadav k'achas, okay? Pay close attention because we're going to carve out the case. Yeah? He's putting both hands together. V'likach bishneihem, and he's taking in both. U'lenafe ach, and he's blowing, okay? So he's putting it in two hands and he's blowing. What happens if he puts it in one hand? So it's a shinui, no? The Gemara says shinui. So if he puts it in one hand and he's blowing, so what's the— everything's the same. Doesn't the Gemara say sheini? Correct, but the question is, it's a sheini in what? Let's take a look at the next case. V'hu hadin— maybe he's like this. Oh, so again, mishum— let's see, let's see. V'loy dahainu l'dabek shtei yadav k'achas. He's saying good vort, he's saying good vort. Maybe it's like this, and not like this maybe. L'dabek. L'dabek maybe means like this. I always learned it like this. Could be, could be he's going like this, and he's blowing through you. And the reason why it's normal, I guess, is because it holds everything together. Maybe because the way I am learning that it's like this, yeah? So what's the difference if it's one hand or two hands? You could do it like this. I'll tell you, there's a gevaldige Chashukei. The Chashukei says that this has nothing to do with zera. It has to do with the oden d'chel, because if it has to do with zera, what's the difference one hand or two hands? What are you talking about? So, ma d'udin d'chel. And since you're doing it with one hand, you're not doing it like you normally do it on the chel. Lo vazaksta? You would say that the pshat is— what's the ikar דין here in the Mishnah Berurah? The ikar דין is l'nafeach. He's blowing. The Mishnah Berurah is learning the case that he's blowing. So what happens if he's not blowing? He's going like this. Why does the Mishnah Berurah need that he's blowing? And what would be takkeh if he's not blowing? So let's see the next part of the Mishnah Berurah. V'hu hadin d'miyad l'yad chaverta, which means he takes it. One hand to another, okay? Ein nochin l'das haRambam. Oh, I thought you told me the wind. You told me that's a case of wind. Didn't you tell me that? Why is it ein nochin l'das haRambam, and he brings down the Tur's meikel? What am I seeing? Zoreh laruach, no? Didn't you just tell me that if with my hand I make ruach— So again, how— I'm pouring it from one hand to the other. So what happens? It's gravity. So something is— something— kernels are heavier than the garbage, right? Something in the ruach is something, no? No, that's not. Let me ask you a question. If I threw it up into the air and there was no ruach, it was a day that it was dead air, so you're gonna say it's not zoreh because it wasn't wind that did it? It doesn't mean wind. It means— roikek laruach. You told me spreading it out, that the wind is spreading it out. Did you tell me that? I didn't know there was wind in a bathroom. You knew there was wind in a bathroom? Huh? The Magen says a bias deshayish. There's no wind inside a bias deshayish. He said deshayish. Why doesn't he say— what's it talking about? I fucking hear what we're doing. The literal pesukim, beautiful.

Okay, you know what it is, rabosai? I see already what we're gonna do. Today we're gonna do groundwork, and tomorrow we'll pasken. So let's get there. It's a beautiful sugya. Haroikik l'ruach. What do you mean, l'ruach? What, you think the wind is coming? Oh, the wind is here. He gives a spit into the wind. He's spitting. It has to be a wind. You have to call up the forecast: By the way, is it a windy day? How many barometers? Barometers, right? How does it work with the wind? Not barometers. How many knots? How many knots? That's by sea. By sea. Right. How many knots are there? Wind gusts. What's the wind gust of the day? Oh, I'm chayiv because the wind gust is 30, and if the wind gust is 10, I'm not chayiv. L'ruach doesn't have to mean that the ruach is part of it. It has something to do with gravity. It has something to do with the air. Maybe. Look at here. Let's go back to the Mishnah Berurah. Mishnah Berurah says in the first case you're blowing, yeah? So I asked you, what happens if you do it with one hand? He said, peshitah. In the blowing part it's a shinui. And my question is, according to the way you learned, that it's, we don't really care because it doesn't make a difference with what you do it. Haroik—someone spits into the avir, that's not a shinui. I mean, that's not zoreh with a shinui. What are you talking about? Why isn't every borer b'yad not a zoreh? You remember, it's not with air; it's with hand. So we're maskim that it needs air. No, I understand, but I'm asking— It says air or ruach. Is it air or ruach? And the second question is, if the what you do it with makes no difference, it's all about air, so what's the chiluk between yad and shtei yadayim? I don't get this. This is right off the charts for me. I don't get it. You just told me a ma'areh chiddush, the tam chui, what you do it with makes no difference, right? And haroikel ruach could be chayav because it's called zoreh laruach. So I don't see, if I do it with one hand, yeah, it's a shinui. Well, shinui in what? Is this—I mean, even without the Derech HaShochom, let's leave out Derech HaShochom—is he talking about a de'oraisa or a derabbanan? It's mashma— Okay, so the truth is I'm clear about this. I'll show you how I— It's mashma the ein nachon is going on the first case. No, the ein nachon is the second case. He's just saying that the ein nachon is without me blowing. No, I'm saying it's mashma it's going on both, really. First of all— No, the ein nachon is going on the second case. The seifa of the mechaber is melilos, lo yinapeh b'kanon. That's already derabbanan. And v'loy b'shtei yadav. I don't know. I bring afilu teima derabbanan asur. I clear, maybe it's a sugya derabbanan. Maybe the whole Yerushalmi is— But even the hemshech of the Mishnah Berurah is like that. No, what is shtei yadav? The hainu l'dabek shtei yadav kachas likachas. No, the hemshech is because of the tur that's meikel. No, the hu hadin because the tur is meikel. That's right, separate case. But perhaps the ein nachon is still going on the first case. Either way, either way— And no one says chayav. He puts it in the same batch as kanon b'tamchui. You want to say a big chiddush that if you do it with two hands and I blow, it's only derabbanan. So why? Shailah is why. Unless you say that you're making the ruach. I'm not really sure how to work this. Something is different between roikik laruach in Yerushalmi chayav and the case of yad where it's mamash blowing. You're blowing. With this— I think we can go one step further, okay, and say like this. What happens if he blows with one hand? Again, the Mishnah Berurah's case is yad l'yad without blowing. It's one hand, the middle case. One hand. Two hands, blowing, no good. But one hand to hand, you should be zahir. What about one hand and blowing? Sounds like clearly mutar. The issue of yad l'yad is that you're using two hands also. Again, because you say yad l'yad because you have the two hands involved. Yeah, yeah. So it's more the derech. The heter of one hand is a shinui. So yad l'yad is... In the Aruch HaShulchan, that you don't have to blow because it has to do with uvdin d'chol. If you would blow, he would hold you're chayav for zoreh then. He says, what's the Rabbanan? He said, what's uvdin d'chol? The whole issue is about uvdin d'chol. So what happens if I tap it, blew? He's not learning this case. He doesn't learn anything to do blowing. There's no blowing. It's not just with the hands, just with the hands. Yeah. In other words, he's learning the sugya, hayu lo melilos me'erev Shabbos, so he's doing it with a kli and a tamchui, or with two hands, or with one hand. The Aruch says that the sugya is not to do with zoreh; it's not to do with winnowing and blowing.

It's ... That's why it's also. It's ... It's ... It's not ... And doing what? What are you doing? You're not blowing. You say whatever it is. Well, yad, yad. Getting the kernels. You want to know another case? You want another case? Pina covers. Pina covers. I'll tell you another case. Not the shell, but the softer inner shell, you know? Write this case down. What happens? Take peanuts. What's that? It's not ... which is the case, yad l'yad. Then you have this, and the Mishnah Berurah holds you're blowing. What happens to this? I mean, that's yad acher. That could be. That's the case. Could be. But if you take it and throw it into a bowl. Same thing, right? If you throw it ... I don't know if ... is being matir that. How do you know? Because the ... is saying with one hand it also means like this, ... That's a melilah issue. It's a ... issue. Throwing up, if that's called ruach, it could be ... The ... is not discussing that. Yad achas, I don't think is effective over there. The ... is talking about how do they do melilah. They do melilah two hands. That's ... One hand, not ... Throwing up, ... That's ... I'm saying it could be ... either say chayav or ... Yeah, whatever. I don't know. I'm pointing out. I don't know. Chayav according to him is this has nothing to do with. But it would come out a very big nafka mina in the Mishnah Berurah. These are the two cases I want to know in the Mishnah Berurah. I want to know in the Mishnah Berurah, hand to hand, does that have anything to do with zoreh? Choreh? Otherwise, what's it doing here? What do you want exactly? You see that the first case is menafeach. Menafeach has something to do with—unless you say even in the Mishnah Berurah, menafeach has nothing to do with zoreh. But why not? And what would be if you took it in one hand and you were menafeach? And I'll tell you why I'm saying this. Give me the classic case what everybody talks about. The classic case that everybody talks about, zoreh. There's one case, because nobody's going to talk about if you spit to the ceiling, right? Because Mishnah Berurah holds it's mutar anyway, right? By teven, throwing up teven. That's not the case. Nobody brings teven. Give me the most— There's one case in the books. Spray. Spray is already only a chiddush of Rav Moshe says it's mutar. What's the one case that all the poskim and all the books will bring you? Dust? No. The peanuts with the shells. That's the— they teach it to the kids, the peanuts with the shells. You take peanuts and you blow the shells off, right? You blow the— I hold it's mutar. I don't say— did they learn the Mishnah Berurah? Did I make up this Mishnah Berurah? Something is— somebody's making up a Mishnah Berurah here. What do I mean? It's not the ruach. You're creating wind. You're making ruach. What does Mishnah Berurah talk about? Shtei yadayim. You never spoke about one hand. If yad lechaveiro— What is the difference? You just told me that there's no— I asked you. I just asked you that. He says about two hands, so I asked you, what's the difference? So you said, hashinah. You just told me. Oh, okay, I'm sorry. You'll take. You know, Mati does, my screen is locked. There's nothing. It's tough love, as they say, tough love. I don't know why it's chayiv. I'm not convinced. The one case the Yerushalmi talks about is that the ruach, it spit up into the air and the ruach comes and is mefazer it. It's the same thing with the spray. It's not the same thing. In both cases of sprays, the spray you yourself are making it in an oifen. I don't know what this is. This Mishnah Berurah and Aruch HaShulchan, I don't even know what it is. Is it al zoreh? Maybe it's not doer zoreh. Maybe the mefach is a way of doing borer, but so then it would have to be, like he said, like two hands. But hachanami, he never spoke about one hand. What does it say? Ela menafa b'yado achas b'chol kocho. It says clearly, no? Menafa b'yado achas b'chol kocho. So what do you want? If this is borer, if this is zoreh, it says clearly that with one hand it's mutar. So what does he mean? Either menafa means that you're shaking it, or like I told you, throwing it up. I don't know. I'm not sure. You know what it is? Right, so what's b'chol kocho? You're throwing it up hard. No, I would say it sounds like it. You're doing something b'chol kocho.

Listen. Today's shiur is just to throw it back in your court. Did you see that the Mishnah Berurah says, you know, if not for this Mishnah Berurah, I would learn it's all about different sifting. I sift with a thing, a kli, a tamchui, I sift it with my hand, I go like this, I'm shaking it. The Mishnah Berurah says, menafeach. The Gemara brings menafeach. What does menafeach mean? The Gemara asks, keitzad menafeach? ... u'lemalah. Machkulo b'ma'arava ... Yeah, I know. ... No. ... menafeach b'yado achas v'chol kocho. And I guess that's the oifen heter. Yeah. So what do you want? This is menafeach or menapeh? No, menafeach in the Mishnah Berurah is menafeach. We don't know what it means. Menafeh could mean something else. Menafeh could mean shaking. But the Mishnah Berurah sticks in, v'lika bishneiyah v'hu menafeach. Menafeh means like a ... I understand. So I'm asking you, the Mishnah Berurah says that the case of two is that you're blowing. So I'm asking, and if it would be one hand, then you're blowing? So what's the Gemara being matir? The Gemara is being matir menafeach b'yado achas. Halacha l'maaseh, did you see this Mishnah Berurah, l'nafeach? I'm asking you just how to read this Mishnah Berurah. What does l'nafeach mean? Two hands or one hand? Two hands. I'm asking you, so what happens if it's not that? The Gemara says ... So I'm asking you, so what's the case of the peanuts everybody's talking about? I'm asking you, pashut. That's exactly what I'm asking. I don't understand the story. The story of zoreh is you spit it up into the air, okay? That's the story. Linafeach, bishteling yetzur. Maybe it has nothing to do with zoreik. Maybe it has to do with boirer. Maybe it has to do with the merakeid. It has nothing to do with. But if you learn it has to do with zoreik, so you see a clear case that if I blow with my mouth, linafeach means I'm blowing my mouth, no? That's the story. So if I'm being menafeach with my mouth, it's mashma that it has to be only in a certain way, which is doimeh to hayah lo melilos, that yedadeh b'kaneh v'tamchui. So I don't know if the peanuts thing is aser. The one case that everybody brings, I don't know where they got it from. Peanuts, they say, are zoreik or boreir. That's the case in all this. You want to have one story about zoreik, it's that, the peanuts. The story of zoreik. That and the aerosol spray. Okay, we have to go weiter, and tomorrow we'll patch up, because I see we're learning the sugya today still fresh. Okay, so let me ask you a question. Is there halacha of zoreik achar zoreik? Is there halacha of boreir achar boreir? That's halacha boreir achar boreir. It's a problem, you saw. Even if there's a little pesoles, and then you take more pesoles. Tochen achar tochen, mutar. So this is a big machlokes, I'll show you where it comes from. Take a look at the Magen Avraham. The Magen Avraham, in tof mem-vav, se'if katan beis, says that you're not allowed to take your chametz on Pesach and be zoreik l'ruach, even though that's one of the ways of how to get rid of chametz. I, l'maaseh you did zoreik l'chatchilah in the making, right? They used to do zoreik, and it's zoreik achar zoreik. Says the Magen Avraham, we pasken, yesh zoreik achar zoreik. Comes along the Mishnah Berurah in siman tof mem-vav, se'if katan beis, go look it up, it's a gevaldige Mishnah Berurah, that it's really mutar. We don't pasken this Magen Avraham. Who does he quote? He quotes the Rav Shlchan Aruch. I went to look at that Rav Shlchan Aruch. The Rav Shlchan Aruch speaks about that because it's only midrabbanan, asur, and since chametz b'Pesach is a chiyuv to get rid of, so the de'oraisa of biur chametz outweighs the halacha. Okay. So he comes out that we pasken, yesh, according to the Magen Avraham, al kol panim, and the Mishnah Berurah, yesh toichen, yesh zoreh achar zoreh, right? Why is the yesh zoreh achar zoreh done? Isn't zoreh p'seik reisha? You took care of it already. Huh? You say not already. I'm not telling. This is the machlokes. The nidon is: is it boirer p'seilos? So then, hachanami. But if it has nothing to do with boirer, what is it? It's just zoreh laruach, so it's shayach even when you get already zoreh; it doesn't make a difference. Hachanami, boirer achar boirer is mutar. Boirer is mutar. Come on, boirer. I mean, it's finished. Once you boirer, you boirer. Even if it's perfect? Back to different thing. Is this totally machlokes to Rav and Rashi? What do you mean? What, what, what say? What's the chiluk between...? Yeah, stam has to do with that. Stam. Okay, let's go.

One more step, you ready? What does the Mishnah Berurah mean with eina miskaven? Now let's go back to eina miskaven. What do you need kavanah for? No? It's a question, lo nichalei. What do you need miskaven for? What's the kavanah for? To make it a melachah. To make it a melachah, melachas machsheves. But what do you mean? But you're mechaven, you're mechaven to spit it. No. Well, what? What's the issur? What's the melachah? If you learn the melachah is separation, I'm not being miskaven for separation. But you are zocheh miskaven to be zoreh laruach. That was the whole point, is you want— that's the point. You want to spit it and get rid of it. Isn't that the idea? It doesn't have to be ruach. I'm saying, every time you throw something out, that's zoreh? Every time, yeah. So let me just throw something in the garbage, it's just zoreh? Okay. So let me ask you a gevaldige shaylah, yeah? Let me ask you a gevaldige shaylah. By chametz, I was thinking about this, by chametz, the pizur haruach is for what purpose? I'm davar hamispatel. You want the chaff that it should become, right? It's not that you want it to go somewhere. You want it to get chopped up. You want it to become— okay. Let's say confetti. Let's say you threw confetti up into the air. What's the kavanah there? Separating. No. You want it to be spread around. You want it spread around, whatever. You want it spread around. That's why you're separating. You want it— if you fall in one place, it wouldn't be such a show. No, but I'm saying, you don't want— you're missing my point. It's not the cheftza should become separated. It should reach different places. I'm saying it's already separate pieces, like a fetty. You just want all the pieces. Every borer is separate pieces. I mean, not every, whatever. No, it's not. You don't want it to be spread out. You want it to be destroyed. Yeah, that's one thing that you want to become separated. By borer, you have to be separated. By confetti, what you want is just to spread it around. You wouldn't be so happy if the blue stayed with the blue and the yellow with the yellow. By the right, what do you want? By the right, what do you want? What do you want by the right? I don't want anything. You want to land on the ground, that's all. So the eino miskaven b'kach could be what? Separation. Separation. I'm not interested in separating. Or maybe eino miskaven b'kach, I'm בכלל not interested in the zoreh l'ruach. I don't care that the ruach does anything to it. Yeah, what's the difference? Is the not kavana in the borer, or is the not kavana because I'm not mechaven for anything? I'm just trying to get it out of my mouth. What do you mean? And if a guy, there's like a big wind, and a guy says, Oh, then now's my chance to, like, get it really out of my sight. So that's why I asked you, is that really what a guy wants, the farther the better because the wind is here? I don't know if that's what it is. Most people just want to get rid of it. If anything, you don't want it to be windy. You don't want to hit someone, unless you do want to hit someone. Okay, you're waiting for the wind to come so you can get a good shot. I was drinking a dugma when I was seven years old. The shayla becomes if I throw the garbage out. Let's say I throw the garbage from my porch. I throw out the garbage from my porch. Is this Yerushalmi? I don't know. It's a pele to me. I don't know what the hagdarah is. A guy goes to his porch and he throws. So the truth is that what's the story of Reb Akiva Eiger, tipin shel mayim, right? Oh, because it's something that's shayach to separate, right? So the story of the roik is shayach to separate. Something which is not shayach to separate. So let's say a guy throws out the garbage in a way that the garbage could be mispazer all over the place, and he wouldn't be allowed to do it. It's a peledike chiddush. A person should not be allowed to throw the garbage out in a way that'll be mispazer. So he's telling, throwing off a plate into the garbage. I'm telling you, I'm asking. That's what I'm telling you. I don't know. That's my shaylah. If you learn that every time you take enough, if zayin is about zoreh, then it comes out that every time I throw something, throw it out, there's a problem of zoreh. Basket shot into the garbage, it's a problem of zoreh? Two pieces. Two pieces separate.

You have two tissues and you're good, no? I don't know. It's a peldik hakdah. I don't know how to be magdir this. Unless the story of the reich, you want it that way. The story of the reich somehow that the ruach, the ruach becomes a chelek of the shaylah. Okay, so tomorrow, im yirtzeh Hashem, we'll patch it up.