Hilchos Zoreh: Spitting into the Wind, Confetti, Peanut Shells, and Blowing Away Dust

Transcript

Okay. Yesterday we learned nice teirah about zoyreh, and we were mefafel hinin tzrich. Kitzur, we said, is zoyreh the maaseh of borer, but through different means, psoles and oichel, or is it the maaseh of zoyreh? Is zoyreh like borer, or is zoyreh a separate zach, something stam a psoles and oichel? Yeah, in the yesod of the melachos, the yesod of melachah, the maaseh zoyreh, or the yesod of melachah is the maaseh borer that comes from zoyreh? And bemes, again, I don't want to chazer, but we said we spoke from the Yerushalmi; it's mamash af in a zach. That's the shakla v'tarya between the Mishnah Berurah and—right? Because Mishnah Berurah says that by roik there's no pesoles and there's no oichel, there's no hafradas pesoles and oichel, and you need to be domeh l'borer. Mamash says a klar the biur halachah from Reb Akiva Eiger. So you see that the Yerushalmi held not like that, that it's not domeh l'borer. Okay, dos is megeret necht. Now I want halachah l'maaseh a little bit. So first of all, in the Yerushalmi, I still hold strongly, haroikik b'ruach, and if there's no ruach, there's nothing what to talk about. So babayis, there's nothing what to talk about. Sorry, he's asking that also. He holds that babayis there's no problem. So his whole yesod is that every ruach could be comparable; there's no ruach there. Oh, so he says babayis. Okay, so let's try to do one thing. Let's try not to—I said, he said, I says—I, then it's not shayach for me to—what should I do? We just say what you're talking about. Yes, okay, okay. Haroikik b'ruach is the last Rama in siman tes. Hagah: haroikik b'ruach b'Shabbos, v'ruach mefazer, haroik chayav mishum zoreh. So the first thing that I want to be medayek is, haroikeik, the ruach. It has to be baruach. What's the wind doing to the spit? The wind is being mefazer. It says clearly, ruach mefazer. Mefazer means it's spreading it out, scattering it. Eventually—okay, that's what we're going to talk about. We have a lot to talk about. We touched on all this yesterday. Yesterday we said galali, we said a lot. But I want to come to a maskana, pasken what I feel, and then so be it. Let the chips fall where they may fall, as they say, huh? Zoreh is when you take something and you throw it up in the air. Okay, so shteit nirshami, it does it. And the Mishnah Berurah says we don't pasken like this. Okay, so do it quickly, rabosai. We don't have yesterday, so do it quickly, come on. Mishnah Berurah—two Mishnah Berurahs. One is that we don't pasken that way, and one he explains what zoreh is, okay? Biur Halacha brings from Kiveiger that this is not l'maaseh for a few reasons. One is that it's not mevarer the psoles from the oichel, and even according to the Rama it wouldn't be by water because maybe only roik, because roik is gidulei karka, comes from adam. And then the last thing is it's psik reisha without kavanah. He has no kavanah for it. Lo ניחא ליה. He's not interested in the whole business. Okay, so the first thing is haroik, it says baruach, so it has to be to the ruach. All right, so first of all, where there's no ruach in the house, there's nothing what to talk about. So when they discuss aerial sprays, unless you're spraying for bugs in the camp over there, outside in the street, there's really nothing what to talk about, right? I don't believe—unless there's next to a window maybe, sometimes in a beis hakisei you open the window. What? I don't believe in that. I believe that's nonsense. If it's in the bayis—ah, so a fan I could hear. We'll talk about a fan a little bit later. Efshar fan, when efshar, you open the window from the bathroom when you spray, that could efshar, you know, the wind could be. But where there's no wind, I don't really think there's what to talk about, okay? If there's a fan or if there's a thing, okay, there's what to talk about. L'maisa, haroik b'ruach does not have not kli, nor does it have hand. So it's not kli and not hand. L'choira, do you need kli, do you need hand? So the Iglei Tal says, I saw it in sefer, I don't know if he quotes it, but the Iglei Tal brings down that it becomes a toldah. Kli is the melacha; the yad becomes the toldah. Now, does he mean that roik would be nichlal in yad? I don't even know. I could hear that roik is not necessarily even nichlal in yad, because yad is the pshat, it's substituted by the kli. But haroik, no one took a thing in the mouth and spit it up, right? You didn't take the tefuah and put it in your mouth and spit it up. So I would clarify that in the Iglei Tal's sevara, that it's not b'domeh l'mishkan, that we could go one step further and say that since it's not what, even with a yad, it's less than that.

Bichlal it's not chayiv. Minchas Chinuch takah says zera is only b'kli. And he says, then what happens if it's not b'kli? Then it would turn into boir. So he says the hasra'ah you would have to give would be boir. So according to him, l'choira, haroikik b'ruach would be chayiv not mishum zoreh; if anything, it's chayiv mishum boir. What would be the nafka mina? What would be the— I'm saying, again, if anything, I'm saying the problem is you're not boirer psoles metoch ochel. That's a problem of the Biur Halacha. But whatever it is, haroikek, right here, it's not zoreh according to Minchas Chinuch. The only thing is, the nafka minas would be when it's not b'kli and not b'yad. If it's alts boir, maybe you have the heter of lalter, which is gevaldig, because it comes out that with the peanut story that everybody's bothering me about, you have a heter of lalter, as long as it's not b'kli. Then you should have the heter of lalter. What's the heter when it's not b'kli? I just told you, if you learn that it's boir, what else is it? Because you're learning that it's psoles metoch ochel. How did we learn boir? What stays or what goes? How does it work? If you blow off something, by pouring it's one thing, by sifter it's another. If something is in your hand, remember we spoke about whatever's left in the hand might be the what? The ochel, right? And what happens? So what happens? So let's say I blow away the peanut shells. So maybe it's not called boirer psoles metoch ochel. And what's the halacha we learned? Right, or maybe if I have it in my hand and I blow— I have many things in my hand. We don't have to be tired of what? I don't see what the problem is. You're not being mafrid. You're not taking something out. You're separating, right? You're blowing one thing off the other. I'm asking, that's the shaylah. Would there be an issur borer in that? Why is it not doimeh? That's the tachlis of the kli, to keep the thing that you don't... You're saying here it's closer. It's closer to being borer b'seifo. Whatever it is that you're masking that if it's al borer, then you can have the heter of lalter. Forget about the peanut case. Are you masking that if it's borer, you would have a heter of lalter? Okay, good. In a case where it's oichel and pesoles. Right. Oichel mitoch pesoles. Here, let's say the heavier thing stays, right, and the light thing goes. Let's say I blow on something, the light thing goes off, and the light thing is the oichel, let's say. Okay, you want that case? Give me a good example. What about popcorn maybe? What's popcorn? He speaks about popcorn? Read it. Let me see what he said about popcorn. That's it. I'm not going to be able to talk. Every word. Okay, what? Maybe the popcorn. Okay, if you hold that this is pesoles... Popcorn, right? Yeah, the kernels. You want to blow away, yeah. No, so that would be ochel pesoles. But if you don't have the heter of lalta because it's not borer. On zoreh, there's a shaylah. You have the heter of lalta. That's what I'm trying to tell you. If you learn—yeah, let me see what he says. ... tiras ... Ah, that's what they call popcorn. Popcorn. ... because of the heter of lalta, huh? ... because it's ochel mipesoles. That's not much this case. Who does he quote from? Where's the mareh makom? Let's see, find me the mareh makom. Okay, al kol panim, here, I just have a different shaylah, all right? So could you be medayek that zoreh needs a kli, like popcorn? Well, I'm looking, I'm sorry. ... Popcorn. ... This is what Rabbi was telling us. ... That's the same svara of lalta. Okay, good. Okay, good. And he calls that pesoles ochel mipesoles, right? And I guess I get the peanuts would be the other way around. It's pesoles toch ochel, because there you don't have the heter of lalta. Okay, good. Now, what happens by the roik, lemaaseh?

By the case of the roik, it disintegrates, or it spreads out. It disintegrates, right? I mean, it doesn't... By tipin shel mayim, if you start throwing tipin shel mayim from a window, what are you gonna tell me? It finishes. It becomes finished, no? So why don't you have this cheshbon that we made by boirer, that it has to be davar hamiskayem? Remember we learned melachas machsheves has to be davar hamiskayem. So why isn't there a cheshbon of zoreh? The normal zoreh is davar hamiskayem. Same shel chametz. Huh? Same shel chametz. I don't understand the shaila. I was thinking about it the whole day today. The case of the chametz the Magen Avraham brings down, that they take the chametz and they throw it into the air, says the Magen Avraham, you have a problem with zoreh. Iit's davar she'eino miskayem. I don't understand. You're being mefair. You want to destroy. You want it to become disintegrated. Everything with all chametz. The whole normal zoreh is for davar hamiskayem. I don't understand that. Huh? That's what I'm saying. There's a case of zoreh leruach, achvashtein. I was thinking about it. I don't understand where is the davar hamiskayem, the melachas machsheves. No, because by regular zoreh with the teven. Yeah, you walked away with the teven. What are you talking about? Avada, you walked away with the teven. You don't think that you're blowing away. You walked away with the teven. What are you talking about? But if you zoreh leruach, what do you have from it? I don't say it's davar she'eino miskayem. What's chaser from that? So it's a... if the zoreh is the maaseh, then... Aerial spray. What? It's gone. Disappeared in the air. What do you want? Maybe... if the yesod is because zoreh is taluy in the maaseh, so what do I care if even in the maaseh it's davar hamiskayem or not davar hamiskayem? Yeah, I once told this to you. I once told this to you. What happens if a person does boirer by taking off the frozen from a cholent? We said the kid is nothing. It's a davar she'eino miskayem. But the minute you take it off, it's gone. Because the idea is the oicham... Over there you need davar miskayem, but stam, it's the ma'aseh zoreh. The point is not separation. You hear the kasha, chap a kasha. It's a davar she'eino miskayem. I don't hear it. I'm sorry. Next. I understand the ma'aseh zoreh, but in all melachos Shabbos it has to be—there's no ma'aseh, it's nothing. What are you doing? ... But if it disappears, I mean, unless you say—huh?—you're doing an action. It doesn't have any concrete results. Unless you say a gevaldige chiddush that the case of mefaza, the case of mefaza taka means it stays, but it stays in little pieces all over the place. It's mefaza and it taka releases. But by chametz, I don't know. By chametz you want it to disintegrate. Isn't that the whole yesod of the biur? ... Anyways, the case of haroikek laruach, yeah? Varuach mefazroi. So my she'eilah is, was he roikek and then the ruach did it, or he was taka roikek laruach? Reb Akiva Eiger's tziur, he threw out the two things from the window. That's called laruach? I mean, what is that? Better question. He has a heter by chametz because it's ein zoreh achar zoreh. I spoke about ein zoreh achar zoreh. That we said yesterday in the beis medrash. That's the sugya of ein zoreh achar zoreh. But I don't say the whole zoreh. By chametz you're getting rid of it. What are you doing? Okay. Why did everybody bring this book all of a sudden? Because what happened was they were telling me about it yesterday. And, and, and I was enthralled that the person wrote on a whole Hilchos Shabbos in such a manner. I was taken back by the keach hateirah. So now they're bringing it, and they're going to use it against me, every word I say. Okay. Just makes the challenge stronger, that's all. You know me, I don't give up. All right, now. You know that yet. You don't know yet. Okay. L'choira, the case of kiveiger, I want to know: did he throw it out the window? Was it a windy day? Was it not a windy day? Does it make a difference if it's a windy day? I want to know. Haroikek biruach. Water. Water, Reb Akiva Eiger, in the Biur Halacha. So I want to know, haroikek biruach. Biruach just means in the air, or biruach means in a wind, taka? What if it's not a windy day? It's 103 degrees outside, okay? What happens when you throw something from a ten-floor building...

It's going to be because of... Ha? I know, so that's what I'm asking you. What happens if there's no ruach? What happens? Let me tell you, when you throw something—let me just tell you something. When you throw something from high up, that itself, the fact of the gravity of it destroys it. Huh? But it's not wind—a wind. Right. It's the same thing with the spray. With the spray, right. That's what we spoke about, right? It's the pressure of whatever it is, but it's not wind. Wind. I don't know. Pressure is wind. Come on. No, come on. Wind itself is something. Wind is something. Okay, so do you remember me speaking about this to you yesterday? Wind—what is it? When—okay. So this is an Iglei Tal, rabosai, okay? The Iglei Tal says in se'if daled, even if—so I want to declare, could be if there's no wind, then it's taka patur; it has to be a hareik beruach. See? So the Iglei Tal says that even if there was no ruach when you threw it, and the ruach came later, you'd be chayav. So hareik beruach doesn't mean that he spit it into the ruach. The only thing is, he says a nice chiddush. It has to be that the ruach was a ruach metzuyah, and that the thing was able to break up in a ruach metzuyah. But lo yitzuyah—a crazy wind came, and it was mefazer—you'd be patur, because why would you think that that would happen? So hareik beruach is taka that I threw it up into the wind. There's always winds. Mimeila I was mechaven that the wind should come and break it up. You see that you do need a wind according to the Glei Taam. רבי עקיבא Eiger also says, Mai mutar. I know. So mai mutar might not need the wind. Mai mutar might not need the wind. Because who says it's the wind? No, I'm saying if the yesod is because it's coming from a ten-story building and on its way down it separates, I need mai mutar. Mai mutar sounds like the wind has the koach to separate it. Maybe. But this is the point. The point is, do you need that there should be a ruach or not? Do you need that there should be a ruach or not? Haroiki b'ruach means up in the air, or haroiki b'ruach takah means he spits into the ruach. So if loi yetzui, there's no ruach, then eina chanami, it'd be mutar. What's it nogea? Let's see the lashon of the Mishnah Berurah. Says the Mishnah Berurah, V'lo ra'inu mi shechoishesh rak kivan d'eino miskaven l'kach. Sounds clear. What does eino miskaven? Does the eino miskaven b'kach mean he doesn't care that it should be mefuzar, so which means he doesn't care about the toitzah, or eino miskaven means he didn't care about the ruach? If you learn that he stam spit it up into the air, so what's hatas mitzayrech? He wasn't planning on the ruach; he's eino miskaven, he's stam spitting. But if you learn that the pshat is you first need that there should be a ruach, and without it there's nothing with the toitzah, so the eino miskaven might be that he's not mechaven for the pizur. And what was the cheshbon why he did it? Maybe he just wants it to be away, removed, so he throws it into the air, but he's not necessarily cared about the pizur. And the ruach is important. That's what I'm trying to tell you. You have to know what the nekudah of harei biruach is. If harei biruach means stam he spit in the air, and then it really answers this other kasha, you know, and I think it answers רבי עקיבא also. You threw it, right? You didn't have in mind anything when you threw it out of the window. No, that's it's eino mechaven bichlal. In the Rama, you have to learn the case is that he's mechaven for something. He's mechaven because he was roik beruach. It's not stam spitting. In the case of the Rama, he must have had some intention, because he was roik not to the floor; he was roik to the ruach. So there's a cheshbon, right? So he wanted the ruach. The shailah is if he wanted the pizur. Ma she'ein kein in Rav Kiveiger's se'if, he threw it out the window because he wants it out of the window. He wants it not in the house. He didn't throw it to the wind; he threw it down. So maybe when you throw it down, that's not the same case as a roik laruach. And that would answer this kasha. What was the kasha of Rav Kiveiger? It's lo neicha lei. It's not true. You can't say it's lo neicha lei. You can't say that. He had a kavanah. He was roik beruach. Who was roik beruach? You explain to me why a person would do that. He likes the way... so then he has a kavanah. Then he wants... stam spitting? We're saying that he was doing it specifically to the ruach. Yeah.

That's what I want to say. You don't like it, you don't have to like it. All I'm saying is that the lashon of hareig b'ruach, it has to be that he's doing it for a cheshbon, and it's b'ruach. He was taka—unless you say ruach just means in the air. Does the translation b'ruach mean ruach, wind? Oh, now maybe ruach just means in the air. Hareig b'ruach—stop spitting in the air. But that's what it means. It could mean, because the ruach is essential in the shechitah. I agree with you, and all I'm trying to say is efshar. Efshar k'mezagen dal pshat. Fine. I could hear that it could mean the same thing when it says hareig b'ruach. Or goyrek la'avir. Okay, now you're getting so technical that even it's too much for me. Worse, la'ruach. Right, b'ruach means—right, here it's b'ruach stam in the... Happens to be in the wind. First time tonight he's maskim. That's it, I'm winning him over little by little, I'm winning him over. Huh? That's the bihalachah. Bihalachah says the shailah is more kari, the shailah is not the shailah of... Right here, right here, right here. Okay, what'd you tell me with— Wow. Since when does la'ruach mean direction? That's it. I'm not talking about direction over here. You say la'avir, you didn't say la... That's the chiddush, that the ruach mesayea doesn't—that's the chiddush. That's the chiddush of the bihalachah. Kiveigen. That's the chiddush. Okay. Now, now the shaila becomes the confetti. So before you attacked me, he says what? He says it's aser? Okay. It's confetti? No, they looked at it last night to attack me today. This was premeditated attack. I don't have pictures of it. The pictures, it's even better because you can present it as evidence. Here, picture number one, exhibit A, exhibit B, exhibit A, exhibit B. That's it, that's it. They're coming to attack me. It's okay, I can withstand it. You're masking me. I'm saying good. The books ruin everything. That's what happens. Okay. So he said what confetti, he said, is aser or mutar? Aser. Okay, so I say it's mutar. Why do I say it's mutar? Because he said it's aser. No, because I said it was mutar last night before he told me it was aser. What was the cheshbon? It's oichel. What are you talking about? Maybe the bihalacha says you need hafradas oichel mi'psoles, and it could be in psoles, hafradas psoles might be a problem. But there's a problem of being mafrid oichel from oichel? Who said? ... Huh? That's what I'm saying, if it's ... That's it. You don't have the heter of ... I don't know if that's ... I hold it is gidulei karka. Paper is gidulei karka, comes from trees. And I was clarifying. I have a shaila here, I bring it down over here. There's a shaila I wanted to ask you, I wanted to see it here. Neyar is gidulei karka, lo yedua li im adayin naaseh me'eitz. I don't know if they still make it from trees. They still make it from trees? I don't know, there's different papers, I think. There are different papers. I knew that. In the back of my mind, I read that somewhere. They make paper from trees, you know. It's like the... some confetti is cool, I know, but it's... It's only tzvaim. Different colors. It's not a chiluk, it's tzvaim. It's in tzurah. Tzvaim, tzvaim, tzvaim. Different lollipops, tzvaim, different colors. We learned this. Is that shtei minim? I can't, I can't. Don't tell me you forgot where we lived. Oh, he wasn't here. Oh, he wasn't here, that shit. Tzvaim. Okay, you pop. Okay. You can come back on the witness stand. ...lollipops. It's the same taste, the same taste, same taste, but it has a, what's it called, different tzvaim. Same bad taste. Same bad taste. Thanks. Upsa, gut gezacht. Do tzvaim make we tainen maybe not? The shaila is in tashmish maybe, in shtei minim, in shem. If it's just two colors, no one's gonna say... I want it to follow me, the red part of the confetti, and I don't want the blue part of the confetti to follow me. Who cares what he says? What do you want from me? He said the story just... He says that's gonna be my new thing now. He says... He wasn't here. He wasn't here.

The lollypop was the day before. He was not here that day. With the tzurah? Do you remember the tzurah? Okay, so what does he want? What does he want? The two minim, so I don't think. He wants two minim. I don't think he's right. It's a different tzvayim. B'kitz, I hold it's mutar, so he holds it's aser. Okay, next. Now, peanuts, yeah? Peanuts. Why is he sitting here? What's the ...? Throwing confetti in the air? Firstly, throw confetti in the house. D'cheinish kup, there's nothing wrong. There's no ruach, there's no takkup. There's nothing with nothing. The wind might come. Oh, the wind might come. So if you throw it, l'mashal, in the backyard, you have a birthday party, after confetti, so it's mutar aser. What's the answer to this whole thing of, isn't zoreh, you're separating the chaff from the thing? Correct. And the answer is, you see that the Rama holds not like that, from the Shem Yerushalmi, the spinning case. So what's pshat in the Rama? So I'm just telling you, even in the Rama's case, there's a pizur here. There's something, there's a reason to— What's separating the spit from what? What? The spit from the pieces, different pieces of spit. Different pieces of spit. You want to get more technical than that, I don't think I could go there. It's obviously a little more technical, because you're not separating one spit from— you're separating different parts of the spit. You're saying it's not one thing. Okay, wait a second. Ah, it's the Chassidishe shaila, Reb Chaim No. What's the ...? I think it's Reb Chaim No. Must be Reb Chaim No. I don't know. I can't help you with that. Okay. Now, boitnim. Okay, what about the peanut? Okay, so b'kitzur, I'm allowed to be ... that I'm okay with? Okay. Boitnim. He's allowed. He's allowed. Everyone's, even a ninth grader could argue with me. There's no problem. It's all Torah. If you love Torah, it's all good. It's all good. Every word is good. Remember how Reb Shmuel, you saw Reb Shmuel used to argue in learning, remember? Reb Shmuel Birnbaum used to chase people around the ... Used to what? Chase people. Reb Shechter's son told me he learned by Reb Yehudel Baxt, and Reb Yehudel's father and Reb ... and Reb Shmuel used to fight in learning, unbelievable. So even a tape that the oilam has, they put out a tape. In the hospital. It was in the hospital picture? I don't know, but I heard of maiseh once when they were together in the hospital. Yeah, they were pashut killing each other, pashut fighting and throwing things at each other. It was a tremendous ... So b'kitzur, Reb Shmuel Birnbaum came and said a shiur by Reb Yehudel Baxt. He was running around the bimah, mamash, they were chasing each other. It was in front of the whole yeshiva. So Reb Shmuel, this is, he told me, the son that was there, he was there, he told me that Reb Shmuel said, Ich meg zogen az azsvara baichen b'smedrash? So Reb Yehudel Baxt said, Nein, nisht maskim. Toshes zogen az a svara b'yeshiva b'smedrash? You hear me? Very good. Okay. Okay. When I was in the Mir, in the Mir minyan, so he was learning with the, what's his name again, Anshel Weinhoiz with Zimerman, the moyel, the old moyel Zimerman, and the caterer, Zlatnik, I think his name was, the caterer, whatever. They were all miros. They were killing each other. There was nobody in the bais medrash. I would sit in the back over there. He would come, the Rosh Yeshiva from Tiferes Elimelech, what's his name, Goodman? He would sit there, I would sit in the back, and those would sit in the front, and they were yelling and screaming in the Mir. All of a sudden, one of them said a svara, and the other one gives him a hasag, Schweig! ... So he answers back to him, Du schweig! ... Jetzt hast du ... weisst nicht. Now we know you don't know. It was very ridiculous. For years they would learn like this. All right. Anyways, the peanuts. Okay, so he says that the peanuts is aser. I think the peanuts is mutar, and I'll tell you why. First of all, who said the peh? You're blowing the peanut shells.

Okay, so I don't know if pezai, I don't know if there's such a thing as, but ela mai d'rach? Okay, ela mai d'mishtabura. The Mishnah Berurah might be talking about merakeh, it might be talking about something completely different. That Mishnah Berurah, here you have to see the Mishnah Berurah, right? We did it yesterday. Mishnah Berurah says that the case of, with the hands, hayu lo melilos me'erev Shabbos, lo yenafeh b'kanon. But what could you do? You could do it with yadei achas, but b'shtei yadayim, you can't do it. B'shtei yadayim, you can't do it. So everybody speaks that it has nothing to do with blowing except for the Mishnah Berurah, and he tells me the glei tal. All right, could be. D'hainu l'dabek shtei yadav kachas, v'likach bishneihem ul'nafeach. So the l'nafeach is mashma that you're blowing. So the problem becomes zoreh. Who said maybe the problem is zoreh? Zayin. So I showed him that the Aruch HaShulchan says clearly it's miyad l'yad, it has nothing to do with blowing, and ein hachanami, the blowing would be mutar. So I say, a steit a klar in Aruch HaShulchan. The Rav Shulchan Aruch brings this down also, miyad l'yad, and you don't see one word about blowing. The second thing I want to tell you is that when the Mishnah Berurah speaks about miyad l'yad, right, what's the case of miyad l'yad, that it's ein nochei? What's his case? V'hu ha'din d'miyad l'yad chaverta. Does it have anything to do with wind? Does it have anything to do with—no. It's just the shaking of it, right? It's the shaking, which means it could be even from close. So what's the case like? I mean, how do you learn the two cases? One is he's menafeach, and the other one is from miyad l'yad. I mean, one is about neficha, and the other one is about niur. I mean, it's—how does it fit together, bichlal? I mean, it's like he's jumping from one sugya to the next. One is zoreh. You have the Mishnah Berurah. How would you read this Mishnah Berurah, bichlal? One problem is zoreh, and then from zoreh he goes, but to do it, to do it, hu hadin, d'miadli achaverto. I mean, that's niur. So maybe the whole thing is niur. He's not focusing on the melachah; he's focusing on the—I'm saying, what do you want? I mean, here, I'll tell you what I'm trying to get at. What happens if a person does it b'yad echad? Chayav? Is this the case? B'yad echad is mutar. So what's the lashon of the mechaber, b'yad echad? The lashon of the mechaber is, ela menafeh b'yado, achas b'chol kocho. So what was that? What's the story? Give me the story. You're shaking, so that has nothing to do with wind, right? So what happens if I taka did wind? I threw it up into the air. That's what I asked you yesterday. I don't know. If let's say it has to do—I taka menafeh b'yad echad. I throw it up into the air. I mean, that would be regular zoreh. That should be regular zoreh, huh? It should be, yeah, regular zoreh. It's much more domeh, but where's the ruach? When you throw something up in the air, right, and it becomes dislodged and mefuzar, it's because of the ruach shebo? It's because of the niur shebo? It comes back down. I see, but what, it has to do with ruach. It's not ruach. Which part of this is ruach except for neficha, in the Mishnah Berurah, besides for neficha, that you blew on it? I mean, this has nothing to do with ruach, right? Unless maybe, maybe there would be an issur b'yad echad to throw it up in a way that it tackled the air. Why does anybody in Mishnah Berurah use lashon of napach? I told you this, I don't know, but that's what the Mishnah Berurah does. For some reason, the Mishnah Berurah decided to stick the word menapeach in there. I mean, you say it's a nigleh ta'am. It has nothing to do with this halacha, really. This halacha could be learned either way. This halacha could be learned that with two hands it's normal, one hand is with a shinui, and therefore it's mutar. Okay, but I'm asking, what would be if it's one hand, not from— or from one hand to another has something to do with going through the air and the air is shayach to it. I'll tell you why I'm asking. If you have a hat, and the hat is dirty, so there's a few ways how you could clean it. You can clean it with a brush, which you're not allowed on Shabbos, or you could clean it, to flick it, right, or some other shinui.

Or exactly. What, are you allowed to do that? He's going to look at his book. What do I do with that book? He speaks about Sefarn, blowing dust off. Oh, he speaks about blowing... See, I beat you on that one. See, I got the hat. The hat I like better. Why heists is the thing blowing. So first of all, he talked about the dulei karka. I wasn't sure if dirt is called dulei karka. He brings multiple instances because he's... Yeah. ...heicha shemechaven... Sounds like otherwise it would be a problem. And why is there no boirer? Because it's not shtei minim, it's not attached, it's... But what about the... dulei karka is avachol gidulei karka. I wasn't sure if avachol gidulei karka. The separation later is not nikar. Getting it off the sefer is nikar, but the separation later... Can I have this, and I'll tell you what I'm going to pasken. You ready? I held something very interesting. If you go and you blow it, right? So there you have the sevaras of the Chashulchan. But let's say you take it with one hand, and you... and it's not the near sheboy, but it's the wind. Maybe... Why do I... I can't say one... Yeah, so what does he say? Who's the machlokes between who and who? The machlokes earlier, ... chazara. By the chametz. Same machlokes like by the chametz. Yeah, but... ...toichen, and if it's... Yeah, but you know what, ... I want to know l'maaseh. It's almost like this would be a... This is what I want to... Take it like this. So that's the niur, it's not the air. But let's say I go like this through the air, or I go up and down, which has something to do with the air, maybe would that be also? So for example, if I took a hat or something— Let's take air off, the air or when it lands? I don't know. That's what I'm telling you, it depends. When you go like this to a jacket, it could be that it's the niur, or it could be the wind. If it's the niur sheba, then it'll be mutar. If it's the wind sheba, then it might become— You're saying when you do it very close, there's not— It's not about the air. Now what about gidulei karka? Is gidulei karka avuk? Is avuk considered gidulei karka? They don't say it's mutar for that reason. But is— I want to know. He says that it's considered— why? ... karka. So what's the stone? Oy vey. So what do you do with stone? I don't understand. Avuk is— No, but avuk is the same thing. It comes from somewhere. Where does it come from? Actually, someone told me that most of the dust comes from dead skin. Dead skin. Okay, so this is interesting. See, now you finally got me interested. This was really a big part of what I wanted. If avuk gidulei karka yesh la'ayin. It's amazing, because he does the two things I wanted for tonight: to ask about paper and to ask you what exactly is dust. I don't know what dust is. Dust is dead skin, and adam is called gidulei karka, so maybe it could be gidulei karka. Does he have that adam? Write it down. Write it down. Write it down in the book. Go, go, go, go be metzayen. ... I wasn't sure what avuk— I don't know. Adam is gidulei karka? Huh? Adam is gidulei karka. We learned it. He says, v'i neima she'ein ... karka, then you do a karka with a zera. He says, mutal lefanecha avak, and he puts in parentheses, sheba mei afar. I don't know where it comes from. The avak that we have on sefarim. I'm saying you could have dust from other things besides afar, for sure. Sawdust, anything. So I don't know. So let's say you have dust on a sefer. Where is that? That's from the earth? But one thing for sure, if you call that gidulei karka, I checkmate you with the rocks, I'm sorry to tell you. What's the rocks? Oh, what, afar alei? Yeah. Is there like an accumulation like that? One is I don't know where avak comes from, and bais, I checkmate you with the rocks. We just said a sevara that by rocks, right, rocks is not called—I said that rocks is, is rocks called gidulei karka. What's the case? The pebbles, when you have pebbles in food, is that called gidulei karka? See, I don't know, because he's making sucha over here. The Iglei Tal says by toichen, and his sevara is that by toichen there were certain types of ... that they just take these types of dirt and ground them up and made them into ... makes sucha to zera. I don't know. I hear, but if you look at the word gidulei karka, that was the shaylah we had.

Pebbles are called gidulei karka. In every zera, what do you do? That should kickydulei karka. That's what. That should kickydulei karka. Could be because that was the types of things that he did. No, but the bair has to be. The zera in the Mishkan was not on. Did zera say what? The shailah is what's called gidulei karka. That becomes the question. Let's say stone is not gidulei karka. Huh? Let's say zera is not stone, not gidulei karka. But the foot is gidulei karka. Why is that enough? Because I asked him a pashut kasha: how come by bair, bair doesn't have to be gidulei karka, ma she'ein kein zera has to be gidulei karka? Why? Pashut kasha. So he came and said a cheshbon that by zera, zera, the pebbles— By bair. Huh? By bair. It was pebbles. What? Bair was pebbles. Right, by bair it was pebbles, and pebbles is not called gidulei karka. But if it comes from rocks, where does it come from? Rocks. He tells me because that's called karka and not called gidulei karka. That's what the Shitah Mekubetzes said. So avak is not called gidulei, it's called the kol karka, so make up your mind. Am I feld? You see? Checkmate. You think only he could bother me, I could bother him too back. Okay, now another cheshbon I want to tell you with the peanuts, that l'choira you have the heter of la'alta, but you say it's pesoles. Huh? I want to show you why I'm upset about this sefer, and I'll tell you why. Because you came and I let it go in the beginning. What? No, you could buy it. I'm sure he's a big talmid chacham. I'm just playing it out. But l'maaseh, if you take a look, you came and gave me a whole shtikel Torah that the peanuts is pesoles poteach ochel, yeah? Peanut shells, rabosai, is not soylus, and anybody who says that doesn't know what he's talking about. It's a mefurash halacha. It's a mefurash halacha. Let's take a look clearly in Shulchan Aruch, vav, okay? The Rama, vav. Take it out. Don't sit with that sefer. Sit with the Mishnah Berurah. I'll give you... He really took it to take the dust off. Now I'm going to show you why. Do me a favor, read it. Please read it. Take my teivah, read the Rama. Could you read the Rama? Rama vav. Yeah? Yeah, what's the case? Go ahead, goyzim. You put nuts over there. You're taking off the things from the nuts, yeah? Later, right? V'yesh machmirim. V'yesh machmirim. ... goyzim. Luzim is beans, lentils. Goyzim is nuts. Hazelnuts. Hazelnuts. Go ahead. Beans and nuts, go ahead. Read the Mishnah Berurah. Take my teivah, read the Mishnah Berurah. Which pe'ulah are we talking about? Go ahead, nu. ... Okay, go ahead. ... Okay. It's yerukah. ... The Mishnah Berurah, he says there's different pe'ulos, nu, zogt the Mishnah Berurah. So you have to be careful of borer. Go ahead. Says the Mishnah Berurah that's not true. Okay. ... The davar zeh shekolef haklipah mehen, bichlal tikunei ochlin. ... And he talks about which peel. Ken, but you were the one who was telling me that that's called psoles mitoch ochel, and that's why it's asur. Did you not tell me that? Did you not tell me that popcorn is ochel mitoch psoles, but the Bartenura is psoles mitoch ochel? It's not true. It's not true. It technically is. It's just that there's a separate heter to take an ochel. But that's what it is. What do you want from my life? It's mutar. ... He says clearly the peel on top of the peanut. Peel it off. ... That I was thinking. It could be. I'm not sure. I don't know. But one thing for sure, to blow them off the peel, it's not called psoles mitoch ochel. ... I don't know. The picture is off already, I think. Ah, that's it. The picture is off. Okay, let's finish. Huh? I'm telling you. That's what it is. It's peeling, and it's the ...

Or it's on top. What is ... with the bike? If it's peeled off, then it is. It's peeled off already. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah. All right, so maybe. So then, so write it down. Write it. It sounds like over here it's now asur min haTorah, because by the first two d'mois it's asur min haTorah, asur min haTorah. By this one... I give you ... I'm gonna go crazy from it. Okay. Yeah, I'm saying maybe the Torah... Right. ... is mutar. Okay, rabosai, tonight was fun. This put away, because now we're not gonna learn a word like this. Schita, we're starting Sunday, okay? That's it. All right, it's Hashem's...