Hilchos Sechitah on Shabbos: Apple and Orange Juice, Derech Sechitah, and DeOraisa vs. Derabbanan

Transcript

So let's discuss, before we get into the halacha l'maaseh, let's discuss Nachamu. A quick chazara of the yesodos, and then we can start to halacha l'maaseh. Zeisim va'anavim is chita d'Oraisa. Tutim v'rimonim is chita d'Rabbanan. Shar kol peiros is not chita at all and is mutar. Nachamu. Zeisim va'anavim is chita d'Oraisa, asur. Tutim v'rimonim is d'Rabbanan, asur mid'Rabbanan. And then there is shar kol peiros, which is mutar. What is the chiluk b'yesod between zeisim va'anavim that makes it d'Oraisa over tutim v'rimonim, which makes it d'Rabbanan, to shar peiros, which is mutar? So we said over from Rashi, zeisim va'anavim is urchaihu b'hachi. This is what you do with zeisim va'anavim: you make grapes and you make oil. The rest of the peiros is not urchaihu. That's not the orech. That's not the way it's done. Pshat two, the Ran, that by shar peiros, what comes out is not called mashkeh, quote unquote, mashkeh. Mashen kein by zeisim va'anavim, what comes out is called mashkeh. And soon, later on, we'll get to what does that mean exactly, because I think it's a very nafka mina lahalacha in the hagdarah of what that Ran means. Pshat number three, I found that it is a Tosafos Rid. I said I wasn't sure, I remembered saying we were learning it, so I wasn't really prepared, so I went to New York, but it's a Tosafos Rid. The Tosafos Rid says— Who? I don't remember. I just saw the Tosafos Rid. I saw it. The Tosafos Rid says, Ein derech ha'olam... Lischoit b'shar peiris. It's not the derech, derech olam, and therefore shinui. It becomes, if I do tutim v'rimonim, it's shinui. So zeisim v'anavim is derech, and tutim v'rimonim is shinui. The Meiri, which I think is gevaldig, he brings from—well, it's not the normal, it's mishunah. Yes, it's only mid'rabbanan, because it's not normal. It's only asur mid'rabbanan. B'shar peiris is completely nishto malsas, batel da'atcha, it's stama nishkara malzach. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. The Meiri says a fourth pshat, and rabosai, keep all this in mind as we proceed further in this sugya. The Meiri learns that what comes out of zeisim v'anavim is because it's nivla. The zayis and the anavim, especially by anavim, you see it, it's mamash the whole pulp is the juice. Mashenkein by shar tutim v'rimonim, it's not the juice. Hagan by rimonim, it's like very much like that, but Chazal said not like that, and that's what the Meiri says, that by tutim v'rimonim it's not nivla b'sochoi, ma she'ein kein by zeisim v'rimonim, it's nivla b'soch hapri. Does everybody have the four klalim? Orchei, mashkeh, shinui derech, and nivla and not nivla. Okay. Now let's talk tapuchim, apples and apple juice. So I told this to you the first day. There's a machlokes, the Beis Yosef and the Gra. The Beis Yosef brings down b'shem, sheboleia leke, b'shem Rabbeinu Yeshaya, that it's asur. Why? Because they used to make wine. From apples, like from an apple cider wine. What's it called? And this has a name in English, the apple wine. So they make like a vinegar, they make a wine from it. They used to make a vinaigrette. A vinaigrette is apple cider, whatever. They used to make like a type of wine from apples. The goyin, I told you, is medayik, no. Tutim v'rimonim, the Gemara says. Mashma tutim v'rimonim, but apples not. Because if apples, yes, so why didn't the Gemara speak about apples? If they make by apples, the Gemara should have said it. And he says that in times of the Gemara, we find this, that they made by apples. They used to make yayin from it. So the Beis Yosef is saying if they make wine, then it has to become aser. Then it's orchei bahachi. Mashenkin the goyin says, you see from tutim v'rimonim, mashma dafka those and not tapuchim. Okay. In the later-day poskim, what do we have about tapuchim? The Taz, seif katan hei, says it's mutar. It's mutar. Why? She'ein darkam lischot. People don't make apple juice today. Okay, so that's a very nice question. You see, I'm just telling you what it says. First it says that there's an issur by tapuchim. That we find already in the Beis Yosef, while the goyin holds it's completely mutar.

The goyin holds it's completely mutar. It's not even toutim v'remonim. Now, you want to know, do we bring it back to anavim and zeisim? That's what I'm going to clarify. I'm not sure yet. I haven't decided that. I mean, I have decided, but we haven't spoken about it yet. You have anavim and zeisim is the highest category. Then afterwards you have toutim v'remonim, and then you have shar peiros. Now let's discuss tapuchim. What do you do when you make apple juice? So if you learn that it's aser, so you could either bring it back to issur d'oraisa or put it just toutim v'remonim. Maybe. That's what you say. You have to know the sugya. Or you say, like the goyin, that it's completely mutar, okay? The Biur Halacha, dinoy, brings this goyin. He brings it. We can soon learn the Biur Halacha inside. Al kol panim, the Taz says, why is it mutar l'maaseh? Because today we don't make juice from apples. We're not sochet from apples, says the Chayei Adam. But in his time, the Taz ... says the Chayei Adam, yeah, but today they make big vats. They prepare apples in vats, and then for the juice, and they send it all over the world. Mimeila it becomes aser. The Mishnah Berurah brings down side the Taz, side the goyin, and side the Chayei Adam, and he's machria. Divrei ha-machmir dinoy. You have this big Mishnah Berurah. Go ahead, Reb Leizer, if you want you can just read the last piece. The Biur Halacha, dinoy, yeah? Okay, he says l'maaseh because, and he says more, that if the Taz would live in our time, he says, I'm vadai he'd be machmir. Okay, so if he would see what was going on in our times with the apple juice, and I guess he meant to say was that you walk into Kosher West or the co-op, you'll see 40 different types of apple juices: Kedem and Libers and ... Are you allowed to say the other brands? They're not so ... Those are the weak sides. Luckily. In Westgate they have the other brands? Don't say they're not yeshivish ones, well. What are they called? Maz... yeah, yeah. Lucky, yeah. But kids, you understand the point. You understand that. Lucky I got this radio off my radar. I never heard of it. Maz is... okay. The point being, point being, if that's what the Mishnah Berurah means, if he saw—you see the lashon, I like the lashon of the Mishnah Berurah—if he saw, which means the Mishnah Berurah, he saw it, so... vaizeh... vaizeh... behalacha. The Biur Halacha brings more or less what I said, but I'm just giving it to you in a nutshell. But he has different pages, different sources. Dinei. So give me a regular... Yeah, right before shenisras. Yeah, but he has different sources. He can't find the din. ... then just go back one line. ... Nowadays, slowly, please. Today's shiur is clarity. Oh, you like that. I like that. Why did you say that in the Taz's days they didn't do it, and then he's saying more than that? If the Taz only saw what's going on with the apple juice in our time, stam, that's all they drank in Europe was apple juice, you know. You know, in Russia I believe there's an abundance of apples. You know that. I believe another thing also, by the way, if you learn halachos, you'll notice it. Juices begin when they start having an abundance of something. You know how I know that? That's that Rama with the Mishnah Berurah. Go ahead, you know, read the Rama and the Mishnah Berurah. Go ahead, I'm in the mood today, I'm going, I'm learning. Come on, come on. Just tell you a little history. You know what it is, when you listen to the Mishnah Berurah talk, there's so much in there. It's culture, and it's Europe, it's a lot, I'm telling you. People don't understand. Look what he says. You see what I'm talking about? The first Rama with the derech ha'olam, though. The makom shenahagu lishtos ... peiros. The makom shenahagu lishtos peiros. Zogt the Mishnah Berurah why they're doing it, no. Why are they doing it? The first Mishnah Berurah. Because they have a lot of fruit. That's what it is. Juices begin. So this is because there's not enough of the regular stuff. Here it is. Afilu nogea... rak me'ach sheyesh lahem peiros. Peiros harbeh. That's what it is. Peiros harbeh. You want to know something? That's how the— You think a guy woke up one morning and said, Hmm, I think banana with kiwi would go good together. They don't know. Today, mister, the Snapple guys is special. They have a special chemist. No. Strawberry.

But the chemist, it's not about the chemist. Juices begin when there's an abundance of something. That's how juices begin. All right, that's just paperwork. Okay, now, I'm not going to come to pasken, ye'apple juice de'oraisa—I'm sorry, ye'apple juice. Also, Mishnah Berurah writes clearly that even the Taz would hold, ai degoyin, in the times of the goyim they had yayin, right? So he has a shtikel Torah that even the yayin that they made, they made l'refuah. They made it l'refuah. The yayin of tapuchim is l'refuah in the times of the Gemara. Oh, so the goyim themselves maybe would—again, if you would see the apple juice that we make today, which is not l'refuah, okay, good, als good. I mean, that's part of the biur halacha. We can talk about l'refuah a little bit later. Yeah, because he wants to make apple juice on Shabbos. Okay, you'll soon see why I'm discussing this, so give me a few minutes. To tell you this, this is as you get anywhere. This is not—you can look up any sefer and they'll tell you the Mishnah Berurah and then the Taz and the Chayei Adam, the Chaltzashtei. I'd like to go one step further, figure out that now that it's asur, is it asur de'oraisa, like zaisin v'anavim, or is it like tevuin? If it becomes darkei bekach, so according to one side, urchei, so now it's urchei. So maybe it's a chashash de'oraisa. A lot of Acharonim clear that once it becomes so urchei, maybe it's a chashash de'oraisa. And then we're going to learn the chilukim in dinim between shechitah de'oraisa and shechitah derabbanan. That's why I hold it's very important. It seems like everybody—I mean, we always have wine and we always have olive oil. Yeah, because we, because, I don't know if that's true. I don't know if that's true. I mean, you have to go to Europe. Go to Europe, go to Europe, and that's all they drink from morning to night. They drink wine. We don't have yechidim making it here, though. Now we don't have yechidim making it here, even though— Forget about the yechidim. L'maaseh, it's made. It's, it's, it's— Why shouldn't it be a de'oraisa? The Torah never said a word about zeisim. That's what I'm telling you. You see, that's what I want. That's what I want. I don't know why that's a chiddush. You weren't here yesterday, because we mentioned all this. That's what I'm trying to say. I want to get clear what we spoke yesterday, the day before. I mean, why should it be taka zeisim anovim, zeisim anovim? So why is this different? Okay, give me a few minutes. Now, so the shaylah is: is it de'oraisa or derabbanan? And like I said, we have to see big nafka minas l'halacha between de'oraisa and derabbanan. And I sent my cousin to Rav Azriel, very nice psak from Rav Azriel. Give me a minute. I also want to add to this conversation the juice oranges that we spoke about yesterday. The juice oranges. There's eating oranges, and then there's oranges which are poshut—it's a mess. You can't eat them. It's just meant for juicing, okay? So by a juice orange, it's omed for juicing, so maybe that becomes like anovim, because it's אורחיה בהכי, it's meant for it, and it would be de'oraisa and not like tutim v'rimonim. Now, I'd like to repeat what we said yesterday, because most of the oilam wasn't here yesterday. What makes de'oraisa, and what makes something an omed l'achilah or an omed l'mashkeh? So let's read the Mishnah Berurah again. By zeisim anovim, if it's omed l'achilah, if it's omed l'mashkeh. So he says that when the guy collected it—see the lashon, who's reading the lashon? I don't have a Mishnah Berurah in front of me. Who's reading the lashon? What's the case? First, first, Mr. Bura, by oymdim l'achilah, yeah? By two se'irim. Yeah. No, no, there's one by zeisim also. A zeis is aser, and if it's yotzei me'aleihem, it comes out by themselves. So, oymdim l'achilah, what does it mean, oymdim l'achilah? Ela l'achilah, the din is kibtzum l'achilah. Oh, what does that mean, kibtzum l'achilah? So I told you, I asked this Reb David Feinstein, I never understood the kibtzum. What do you mean? It means that people who take it off the trees take it off for that, which means it's in the mind, or it's in the gavra's kavanah when he bought it. Kibtzum means the person, and it has to do with the kavanah. And if it's in the gavra's kavanah, what happens if the gavra bought it for juicing, and a guy comes into his house, an orech, a kid, whatever, wants to eat an orange, he says, and he wants to eat it now. So is that called oymed l'achilah? What do you mean, the daas of the original person, I mean, how does that change that it's now not a l'maaseh, it's oymed l'achilah? And Reb David says a very good svara. He told me, he said, I have a point. That's the way he talks, you know, Reb David doesn't give you a full-fledged haskamah, but he says, You have a point. Okay, so you hear the she'eilah? What's called a fruit which is oymed l'achilah? So he says, kibtzum. So what does kibtzum mean, that it's—

Those days, you have to understand that the person was his own farmer. So when he was mekabetz, it's those minim are l'kabetz like. Or it means his kavana taka; it has nothing to do with the type. Kibtzah means that a guy comes and he takes it into his house. So then the question would be, today you're buying in the store. Let's say in your mind it was l'achilah. What happens if the guy who's taking it was taking it just for juicing, in your house? Where is the hagdarah of das in the balabos and the guy who's taking it out of the refrigerator? It's a good horaah. You hear the horaah? Okay. So let's go back now and say that we have this very important shaylah by juicing oranges, because maybe the min is taka meant for juicing, but the guy who bought it maybe had no havamina of juicing it, and I'll tell you why. Because today if you want juice, you buy Tropicana. I don't know today, I never see— you saw anybody juicing oranges? I don't even think they sell that stuff anymore, huh? Pesach, vos vilst ich? Men isch fun the frume olam. The frume olam doesn't eat anything on Pesach. You know, lebadz, nothing, except for things that you can peel. They only eat potatoes. They don't eat chicken. You know they don't eat chicken? Who's this? Lebadz doesn't eat chicken. Potato. You mean they create, like with sefer Yetzirah, they make their own chicken. Avraham Avinu, that's what the Malbim brings. The Malbim, the Malbim says he made it. He created with sefer Yetzirah. That's why he has no problem basar b'chalav. They looked in the mirror because they did it anyway, because they didn't know. The Malbim. Where's the Malbim? The Malbim, sefer Yetzirah, the classic Malbims. You hear? Ben habakar asher asah. He created it. Mom says he made his own, he hocus pocus. He made, let's say, for yetzira, he made a beheima. You know what I'm talking about? But it wasn't pasul, there's no gezeira. That's what he says. So that's the shaila: the deraisa, derabbanan, gezeiros, the pilpul, the yeshiva she-pilpul. Okay. So the shaila becomes, the shaila becomes: is there bichlal by oranges such a thing as an oimed l'schita? Is there such a thing even today? Because today people don't use oranges for shechita, meaning they're not going to buy—unless you're talking about the min. You're right, the store and the min is there, and that's where the shaila... You hear how I'm explaining the shaila? I'm a little bit tired and hungry, rabosai, but I want to get it clear. I want you to get—it's been a long day, but I love Torah so much, you fight. You hear what I'm saying? Apples and grapes and olives, the same story. Apples and grapes. Good, that's what I'm trying to tell you. That's what I'm trying to tell you. Could I come and say a juice orange? Who cares what you bought it for? And we could come and say, well yeah, but there's Tropicana today. Who cares what you bought it for? Maybe it's תלוי in the min, and then it becomes a de'oraisa maybe. So that's my shaila. My shaila is: what is makdir oimed l'achila, and the nafka mina would be a juicing orange that most people buy for eating, and then let's say even if you yourself bought it for juicing, what happens if the guy who took it out of the refrigerator bought it—used it, took it out for what? For eating, okay? So what's the nafka mina l'maaseh? It shayach tapuchim we could declare as de'oraisa, and it shayach we could come and say tapuzim is de'oraisa, okay? Is it a fair shaila? Is it anavim and zaysim? That's it. That's it. He asks, it's a kasha down here, the biur... Okay, so you see he's asking my ha'ara. Could we come and say oranges is the same thing as anavim? Okay, we're gonna get to it slowly, slowly. Give me a few minutes. Give me a few minutes. By the puchm is different. Today is klarkeit. Today is everything we spoke. If you pay close attention, you realize we touched on all the nekudos, day one and day two, and now we're going in the mezak for the final landing, okay? So again, mita klarkeit. Anavim and zeisim is de'oraisa. We don't know what that means. Is it just the way—that's the way it is? Or maybe no. Maybe we could put other things into that rule. Or the pshat is that, no, tutim v'rimonim is shar kol peiros, and everything's like tutim v'rimonim today. Nafka mina would be an apple, that we takah make shehecheyanu seder on apples, and the nafka mina would be these juice. And the shaylah is by juicing, it's interesting, because by juicing, the min is takah meant for juicing. The person who brought it, he takah probably didn't buy for juicing, and even if he did, the guy who takes it out of the fridge to eat is taking it out to eat, not to juice it, right? So the shaylah is what would be with the juice that comes from that. We'll talk about it, okay? Now let's go through the ta'amim, and let's see if, lefi the ta'amim, could we say that the oranges and the apples are de'oraisa d'Rabbanan. So according to the ta'amim rishon, which is urchei...

So then I could come and say, Orchei is the same thing, right? Rashi's taam of orchei applies by the tapuzim and tapuchim, correct? What about the taam of the second taam of the Ran? So the shailah is what the Ran means. Shailah is what the Ran means. Does the Ran mean mashkin hilchos shem mashkeh, tumah and taharah mashkeh? I see the Pri Megadim tackled it like that. I found the Pri Megadim, in Eish LaAvraham, the beginning, he learns. The Ran says that only by anavim and zeisim is mashkeh; mashenkein by everything else it doesn't turn into mashkeh. So the shailah is, what does he mean? Does he mean tumah and taharah dika halachos? Then ein hachanami, then tapuchim and tapuzim, I don't have what to work with, right? Basically, according to Rashi, basically everything is working. L'choira, l'choira, and that's really what he's bringing—I don't know what he's bringing from the bottom over there, but that's what he's asking. I mean, l'choira, it's— I mean, it's... I won't say everything. When I would say, but a juice, orange—drop a can, there's this drink here. Who doesn't drink orange juice today? Apple juice, that's what the Mishnah Berurah means. If you saw the amount of apple juice and orange juice that's drunk, what are you going to say, that people don't drink that? Of course they drink it. Okay. Mashenkein, the second taam, if you learn the second taam mashkeh because only this makes shem mashkin, tumah and taharah, okay, so then I can't put in tapuchim and tapuzim. But if you learn, like we explained in the Mishnah Berurah, which I hold is emes la'amito, Mishnah Berurah never spoke about tumah and taharah mashkeh. He mentions it that what? What's the lashon? Go ahead, I don't have the Mishnah Berurah in front of me, the one on the bottom, that it's by shar kol peiros. Nobody uses a mashkeh, mimeila ein shem mashkeh alav. It has to do with what people would want to drink. Isn't it a klal of Mishnah Berurah? I'm telling you it's worth a million dollars just to come for this Mishnah Berurah. You hear? This Mishnah Berurah is saying, Nish pri megadim, u'nishlam this mit yeshiva shetorah with zeiah, and it's not a liquid, it's a zeiah. Forget all that. It has to do with what people want to drink. Period. And if that's what people want to drink, people drink orange juice, and oranges are made for juicing, could be it becomes a de'oraisa. Could be it becomes a de'oraisa. So if I squeeze an orange, it could be a de'oraisa shechitah. Do you have a chaluk between commercially manufactured juices and in your house? No, but maybe not. Maybe not. That's the shaylah. That's what I'm telling you. That's exactly what I'm saying. Could be the min, the juicing oranges are mamash like zeisim and anavim, and the other ones might be derabbanan, maybe. But I'll tell you an afkamina, because cholah, we spoke two days ago, that I told yesterday, cholah was two days ago or yesterday? It was two days ago. Cholah was two days ago, because if the cholah is mutar derabbanan, that would be one afkamina. But I'll show you more, even in practical, not my chiddush. My chiddush is cholah. Forget about my chiddush. Mamash halachah l'maaseh in shechitah, the halachah beis and gimel and daled in Shulchan Aruch is chiluk between de'oraisa and derabbanans. Okay, so I'll soon show you what I mean. Huh? No. What are you doing? Huh? Okay, now. I'm gonna bring—I'm gonna talk lemons. I thought we were gonna talk lemons. We can talk, we can talk—that's lemon. The raayos are from lemons. But I want to show you first, you hear, the point of the third tam, derech. I mean, you can't tell me it's not the derech. If that's the derech, then that's the derech. What? Tosafos rid. If it's the derech, it's the derech, right? Okay. Now the Meiri is a little tricky. The Meiri talks about nivlah, not nivlah. Here I could see that what? That there's a chiluk between an apple and an orange. I think an orange is nivlah. The juice is—it's nivlah. Mashenkein an apple, and I'll prove it to you. I'll prove it to you. You hear? An apple, I think they cook it before. They need to cook it to extract the juice. It needs to be worn down like a techinah, like toichen. You can't just juice something. You can't just squeeze it and squeeze out the juice. I would say that in the me'iri there would be a chiluk between an apple and an orange, that the apple would be derabbanan, the orange would be de'oraisa. And now I'm going to tell you, mori dika mori dika raya. You ready? Yeah? The Rambam, when he speaks about tutim v'rimonim, okay, perek chaf aleph, halachah yud beis, the Rambam says the reason why it's only derabbanan, because— no, he says like this. Excuse me, excuse me, one minute, one minute, one minute. He speaks about not tutim v'rimonim; he speaks about shar kol peiros. He says the reason why there's no sechitah, and he brings tapuchim, she'einam bnei sechitah. I want you to look it up, rabosai. I saw it again today and I said, you know what, this emes pshat. I'm so happy because I feel b'derech nechani. The Eibishter is leading us mamash glatt. It's glatt.

Could you take out the Rambam, please, please, please. The Rambam says that shaar kol peiros is mutar. He sticks in tapuchim. He sticks in tapuchim. Ay, orchein, orchein — who cares about orchein? It's not Shabbos. Here, perek chaf alef, halacha yud beis, please, please, please, please, please, gevaldik. Come on, no, no, no. The Miri. I hold that that's the Miri. He's saying the Miri's words. He's saying the Miri's words, gevaldik. Perek chaf alef, halacha yud beis. Schneller, schneller. There's not enough time. They're gonna come and start bothering with ma'ariv. They're bothering me with ma'ariv. Who needs ma'ariv now? Now we need to daven... Shaar peiros, yeah. He goes, ... tapuchim. Tapuchim. ... mutar l'saichen b'Shabbos. Why? Bnei she'einan bnei schita. Who said all the shitos are not masking to that? Maybe who says? What are you saying? Saying the chiluk that all the shitos... They're not even shayach to schita. Forget about derech and not derech. Forget about derech. The Rambam holds bichlal there's no by tapuchim. There's no... Yeah, now. I'm telling you, even Tifer. I'm telling you the whole metzius of schita is not shayach by tapuchim. It's not a schita entity. ... That's the whole havdalah of shaar kol peiros. I'm telling you, no. Good, but... What do you mean? He's not saying because it's... Maybe the... The Mishnah Berurah says derech and people, they don't eat it. The Mishnah Berurah didn't say nivla. No, no, he's not like that. By shaar kol peiros, the Mishnah Berurah says different reason. He says people don't do it. The Rambam's saying this meiri. It's gevaldik, it's gevaldik. Beautiful. I don't know, I don't know Gemara Chavesh. You're a lamdan Gemara Chavesh. I just... No, no, I'm saying the Gemara that... I can't bother... I don't want to ruin it. It's such a... Rav Elach is holding now with this meiri, no? No, no. The halacha is not going with the shita, nu. The goyim, everyone brings... The teretz is not this Rambam, nu. Sometimes, like, he's not paskening this Rambam, nu. So what is the Rambam? The Gemara that says that they made wine out of apples. I did not... So who said it was shechita? They made wine. Wait, you can't make something with—it's only for shechita. You make a kugel. ...because how did I make a kugel? What's your kasha? You're cooking. It comes out. What's milsa? Okay, now that we discussed this, now that we discussed this, now we discussed this, that we come out here. Now the goyim learns a bissel andersh, because even if they made wine, it's lerfuah. Okay, it's not right now. Now, lefi zeh, b'feirush nafka mina, you hear? The ra'isa d'Rabbanan, very big nafka mina, right? Very big nafka mina. But before I do that, I'd like to say my own pshat, pshat number five. I hope emes la'amito, the chiluk between zeisim va'anavim and tutim v'rimonim. The Rambam, when he discusses zeisim va'anavim, he uses the word asur drichas zeisim va'anavim, pressing, okay? Perek ches, halacha yud. Perek ches, halacha yud. Go ahead. When he talks about all other fruits, he uses the word shechita. Zeisim va'anavim is dricha, and this is shechita. Hasocheres... Go ahead. Ela al drichas. He didn't call it schitas, he calls it drichas, okay? What about in perek chaf aleph, halacha yud-beis, the one we just learned? There he talks about shaar kol peiros, including tutim v'rimonim, and he calls it schitas peiros. What's the difference whether the thing remains be'anmor? Dricha is a process. I understand, that was what it's called, but it's eino chayav al dricha. Why? That's the standpoint. I'm going to talk about it. I believe, you hear me? Tapuchim, according to my pshat, my pshat, tapuchim—I'm going to talk about that in two minutes—my pshat, tapuchim is worse, worse according to my pshat than tapuzim. According to the Meiri, tapuzim is worse. Mashenkein according to this pshat, why? The process is dosh d'Oraisa. The stam squeezing something is the dosh d'Rabbanan. A process. It's a process. They crushed the apple.

It's like zeis, it's like beis habad of a zayis. Huh? It's more, because they have to cook it first. Say, processed. The lashon again. Maybe he doesn't appreciate because he doesn't see the lashon, so... It's a diyuk. You hear the diyuk? Yeah, but by tusim v'anavim, it says over there that the sechita is, sheheim mirkachas bnei adam sochtin osam ki zeisim v'anavim. Right. That means that they did it by the dricha? No, it's not by dricha, because it's stam sechita. What does that have to do with—because some people do it like zeisim v'anavim? This is a gezeirah d'rabbanan, to be choshesh, since it's doimeh. But why does it have to be al zeisim v'anavim? Let it just be stam. Show it to him. You work on— I want to move. I really have to finish today. Come. Please, let's put on the speed now, okay? You ready? What's the nafka mina? Get ready to start writing fast. What's the nafka mina? You hear? Okay, okay, gevaldik, see, gevaldik, you hear? There's something here in this Rambam, with dricha, sechita, melacha. Okay, what do I want here? Listen what I want. I want to say that could be apples is a closer, and the biggest raya, I don't think you can make apples by hand. You can't make apple juice by yourself. No matter how much you— you want to squeeze it in one of those things, it's got to be processed. It has to be pressed and processed. It's a whole different—it's like koireis beis habad, which is by zeisim v'anavim. Okay, let's move on now. What? By an apple it's more professional. Same thing like— Who said? I'm just saying it's processed. It's a de'oraisa d'kedush. It's with a kli and a melachah. Okay, now. The nafka mina if it's d'Oraisa or d'Rabbanan. So the Rama brings down in seif aleph that metzitzah b'peh, and we don't mean milah, metzitzah b'peh of peiros is mutar. Quickly, the Rama, the Rama, the Rama, the Rama — you're allowed to be motzetz b'peh. Read it. Come on, lazy, healthy, fast. Go ahead. No, no. Yesh osrim. No. That's the second day. The first day is that it's mutar. Seif aleph, the first day that it's mutar. Second day is yesh osrim. Says the Mishnah Berurah, so what do we do? If you have two de'os, so either you could go with the klalim, with the yesh and the hen, the second and the first. He brings in the Eliyah Rabbah. So if it's d'Oraisa, you could aser, and if it's Rabbanan, it's mutar. So if it's zehesim d'Oraisa, then you could be motzetz b'peh, and if it's two de'os Rabbanan, so there is a very big nafka mina right here. Right here there's a nafka mina if you hold tapuzim is a d'Oraisa. If you hold it's d'Oraisa, so you can't be motzetz b'peh, mamash right off the crack of the bat, right here. This Mishnah Berurah, okay? Agav, I just think the olam should know that the case of the Mishnah Berurah is not when you put it in your mouth. He says it. He says it has to be like yenika, that you put it next to your mouth and you suck out the juice, but if you put it in your mouth and you suck it out, it's no problem. Agav, I'm just, okay. Now, nafka mina number two. Shulchan Aruch seif daled. Shulchan Aruch seif daled tells us you're allowed to be sochit l'toch ochel. S'chitah l'toch ochel is mutar, says the Mishnah Berurah, seif katan yud-zayin, the Rach is cholek on this. So how do we pasken? So normally we pasken like the Shulchan Aruch. Here there's a Rosh that says we should be machmir like the Rach. He brings a teshuvas haRosh — see the teshuvas haRosh, seif katan yud-zayin — he brings a teshuvas haRosh that we have to be machmir, so hamachmir tavo alav brachah, that you don't do it. And what's the case of the Shulchan Aruch, by zeisim or by shaar? Which one is it? No, no, he talks about anavim, mishkal anavim. Daled is eshkol anavim. I could say, and I hold it's emes, and the raya is from lemons, that it's only by the de'oraisa. By the de'oraisa-dike thing, you're not allowed to put l'socho machmas tovel levracha. Agav, I want you to know that the Darchei Shulchan doesn't bring this Rosh. Darchei Shulchan paskens even by de'oraisa it's mutar. Darchei Shulchan says that we pasken like the Shulchan Aruch; he never speaks about the Rosh. But the Mishnah Berurah is machmir to be choshesh l'das haRosh, only by de'oraisa. So you have a case that what— Forget about that. I'm just saying, it's a chiluk if de'oraisa d'rabbanan. I'm just showing you the halacha l'maaseh. For example, what am I trying to tell you? That you wouldn't be allowed to take a squeezed orange and squeeze it onto sugar, halacha l'maaseh. And that's not me. It's not my chiddush. It's not something you can come and say, I say controversial zachin. It's not to do with me. If you hold that an orange, which you see that whoever was quotes on the bottom of it—it's good enough, the guy on the bottom, whoever, I don't know. Okay, Rav Nevenzal says it's good enough that he said l'choira oranges should be the same thing, so then you wouldn't be allowed to put it into sugar. Mamash klore zachin, mamash klore, klore, klore zachin. You're not allowed to put l'socho deira. Okay.

Our Chashulchan doesn't hold that it's rach; it's just it's rasha. Okay, shein, Irabba l'maises. Okay, now another nafka mina, another nafka mina. We spoke yesterday about kelacha yad. Is there a halacha of shinui that you're allowed to do shechita? What's the nafka mina? For example, when you want to cut a grapefruit and eat the grapefruit with the spoon, and there's juice coming out with the spoon, kelacha yad. So yesterday we said a whole shtikel Torah that could be normal dash was done with a kli, normal dash was done with something, and af al pi kein, none of the poskim bring down that you could do dash b'yad. So you see that even though it's a shinui in the actual thing, there's no halacha of shinui. And what did we say the pshat is? Because the ikar of dash is not the melacha, but the toitzah of making the mashkin, or whatever the story is, and therefore the shinui makes no difference. So be'emes a shinui would be the same thing. So we said, what about b'yad שמאל? So we said anyway, many of the chayadim in siman mem, se'if katan chaf-beis, Mishnah Berurah brings down the Chayei Adam that says that there's no din of shinui b'smol ever in any melacha except for borer. Otherwise there's no din of shinui b'smol. We spoke about this, right? There's Chayei Adam. And I wrote down from the Skanan, from my grandfather, he says that by mefarek, especially by soichet, by mecholev, also there's no heter of smol. Okay, so, but what about with the spoon? What about the spoon? So we spoke, Reb Shlomo Zalman says the spoon is mutar. Why? Because it's kelacha yad. He said it's kelacha yad. The spoon, you're squeezing — you're not mamash squeezing — in a spoon, it's the back of the spoon when you press it, and some people say that you could do it with the handle of the spoon, so it's a din of kelacha yad, okay? So we explained that what was the heter? Because it's two derabbanans, and he says it clearly. Eshkolios, right, the grapefruit is only derabbanan; it's like two different minim, and the spoon is kelacha yad derabbanan, which comes out according to this by de'oraisa's mashma, you wouldn't say the svara kelacha yad, right? Here you have a gevaldige nafka mina. Are you allowed to do with a spoon an orange? Mamish nafka mina lahalacha lemaaseh. If you learn that there's a heter of kelach yad only when it's a derabbanan because of two derabbanans, because the grapefruit might be like two tevuah, it's only derabbanan, fine. But if you learn that the grapefruit—if you learn the orange, for example, is a de'oraisa, then maybe you don't have a heter of kelach yad. We asser all the time. Okay. Another nafka mina, and here comes a very good nafka mina. This is what I sent to Rabbi Israel. I sent my card to Israel. You see an orange on the floor, you're allowed to step on it. Forget about bizayon. It's already ochel, okay? Are you allowed to step on it? Kids love that. You know, that's the kid—the kids look for stuff they could step on, an apple and make themselves dirty. You know, they love that, right? Okay. So the truth is like this. In the olden times, the anavim were pressed by stepping on it. So you can't come and tell me it's a shinui; it's avadah, it's mamash darkei even. Mamash a case of darkei. Darkei only by anavim. I don't know if they did anything else. I don't think they took fruits and did that. I don't think they took zaysim and did that. By zaysim they did it with the beis habad, they did it with—right? So by anavim, by anavim, you know, they say—I shouldn't be telling this maybe, but someone—okay, my—it's an unzer—the enzymes of the feet help to the formation of the—you know that, right? The enzymes of the—not cleanliness part of the feet help to the fermentation of the—okay. I don't know how you can drink wine in those days. Anyways, al kol panim— No, but that's what it is. That's the science behind it. Why would they use it with the feet? At first there was things that they put into, like the vodka, what the Russians put into— Okay, okay. A koponim, rabosai, here. So are you allowed to step on the feet? Are you allowed to step on the thing? Now, so maybe you could come and say, by a davar mitzdarkei, right? Or you want to say it's psik reisha d'lo nicha lei. Psik reisha d'lo nicha lei is asur mide'oraisa, because you don't mean the squeezing of the thing. You want to step on it. You care about to make the juice on the floor, okay? And even by zeisim, maybe the pshat is there's no din of shinui by dosh. So even by zeisim would be a problem, right? Unless you say since it's only derabbanan anyway, so let's say it would be an orange or an esrog or something like that, so derabbanan, on a psik reisha d'lo nicha lei is mutar. Because it could be only zeisim is de'oraisa. So then afkamina would be an orange. If you hold that an orange is de'oraisa, then you shouldn't be allowed to step on it, okay? L'maaseh, if it's not, then it should be mutar, okay? So I asked Reb Yisroel. Reb Yisroel says you're not allowed to step on any fruits in the street because of what? Yeah. ... Halacha, you hear? Because it's, what should we call it? It's a...

Dosh, you're doing schita. Again, only if it's d'Oraisa, but if it's a derabbanan, I don't hear it. I don't know if it's ein derech, it's not derech, it's psik reisha. Nicha lei, I don't know if it's... But nicha lei, the dosh chelek of it, doesn't enjoy stepping on things. I know, see, it's nicha lei, the oil, the dirt that comes, right? Nicha lei, they wanted to squeeze, they wanted to squeeze on the other guy. It's a squirt on the other guy. Okay, I'm not—obviously not finished, so I guess we'll finish it tomorrow. All right, we'll finish. I have more to say. Okay. What's chita? We have work to do. What's chita? And we have to do gadim schita, we have a lot of... Then we have to do chaylev schita. Right, so the... I don't know, I heard.