Hilchos Shabbos: Melting Ice, Frozen Liquids, Sugar, and the Laws of Molid

Transcript

I don't know. I don't hear it. Maybe that was the battery. Maybe. Could be. Okay. Yesterday, we pretty much discussed the snow and the shoveling, and the shovel. Then maybe it's mutar, it's muktzah, okay, as a ... Then we discussed that you're not allowed to break ice, right? That's the lashon. The lashon over here is in Shulchan Aruch: mutar, we'll see, but there's a reason why it's mutar, right? Second, halacha shtei: ha-sheleg v'habarad ... l'shabran l'chatichos dakos k'dei sheyizuvu meimah. But if a person does lizrok chatichah mimenu, then it's shari, right? It's shari. It becomes mutar. So if you have a big bag of ice and you want to break it up so you can put it into a cup. Also, that's what we learned yesterday. It depends. According to Remaisha, according to Remaisha, you're not mechan for the water, so there's never a problem. It's mamash what we spoke yesterday. Mashen kein, if you learn that the sevara is that it's aser because it's risuk b'yadayim, that the mechaber is only matir to put it into a kli, so risuk b'yadayim is mashma that it's aser. And it’s awesome. But he’s being me’ayer that maybe if you do it right away, so then it doesn’t become— It’s a difference. Smash it here. Chavis not mechalek. Huh? So it’s not done with a— No, the answer is important. If that’s the case, then even one chatichah— No, because by one chatichah mishburah has a shikul cheshbon, because very little comes out. So maybe over here also, if right away you break up the ice and immediately put it into— Yeah, but the matzav of breaking up the ice could be yazuvu meimo, just because— No, right away. No, now when you break it up— No, I’m saying that’s because of time-wise, not because of ma’aseh. Yeah. In your ma’aseh it should be— I mean, I’ll tell you, it’s a nice chidush, maybe, in Mishnah Berurah’s shitas, lishit— Mishnah Berurah’s shitah that yenalbi merasek b’yadayim, to put it into the cup. The only heter is, is to put it into the cup. No, the— What’s he doing? He’s bringing it into the cup. No, I’m asking a different— No, he doesn’t say that. He says, l’toch— maybe that’s the word, l’toch hakos. You think l’toch hakos means if it’s a minute or two before, so let’s learn the Mishnah Berurah. Maybe רבי אליעזר גרעכט. V’yesh matirim afilu l’rasek b’yadayim— Aha, that’s l’rasek b’yadayim l’toch hakos. But we’re soon going to learn, I’m soon going to show you that in siman yud tes, Mishnah Berurah says not to do this. In siman yud tes. I’m going to show you; it’s mefurash in Shaar HaTziyun. I don’t know why it’s not here. I saw it again this morning. I had it in my notes as a footnote, because, you know, when I read sometimes I don’t get to all the footnotes on the side of it; it gets sloppy in the paper. But I have it as a footnote in my notes. I don’t know why it’s not here. I’m going to show it to you. It’s a mefurash Shaar HaTziyun not to be somech on this l’rasek b’yadayim. L'rasig b'yadayim becomes aser even l'toich hakois. We learned this, we learned this in sofer. But either way, it's mashma, l'rasig b'yadayim l'toich hakois. So you're saying that's called l'toich hakois. Yeah, but the svara doesn't apply, because vatam d'kimishen nisarev, because the reisa was right into the water. I don't think so. Maybe I'm not maskim. He's saying because the water is not—it's not, not... Yeah, the whole ice, you're breaking it right into something else. Whatever it is, you're breaking it right into something. But if you break it before, I don't know, you have the issur of sheloga. I hear what you want, but you can hear that it's not muchach, right? It's not so muchach in this little mishburah. Mishburah's mashma that it's l'rasig b'soich hakois. And we, the truth, we did mention this yesterday, that l'choira you shouldn't be allowed to break it and then put it in. Ma she'ein kein according to R' Moshe, we should be allowed to do that. According to R' Moshe, you should be allowed to break it, because if the whole pshat is you don't want the water, so here too you don't want the water, so what's the difference? That was the vort that we said yesterday. So R' El wants to ta'ina even in the Mishnah Berurah that could be a gedar l'toich hakois. It's pushing.

Especially if the svara is that it's not behen, which means you're breaking it right into. And we mentioned this. We didn't know what the behen was. Remember we said we weren't sure, is the behen that the ice cube becomes broken into the thing, behen? Nisarev, it's nisarev and it's not behen, or the water that will eventually come from it is nisarev. We mentioned this. Maybe with this shtikel, Reb Yoel, you could push it one step further and say, yeah, we are in that mechaber. We're in that mechaber. So it could be that's the pshat of maybe it's mutar. Maybe. I hear, I hear. Okay. Now that we mentioned it, maybe we should just do it right this second. I don't understand, in shtei toch klor, if you look, rabosai, in siman tes—I'm sorry, siman ches, excuse me, siman ches, okay? Mishnah Berurah goes on a halacha here: asur l'toyach—see siman tes in the Mechaber—asur l'toyach shemen v'shum al hatzli, v'oidoi k'neged hamedurah. It's, you know, smear oil and garlic on the tzli when it's still on neged hamedurah. Afilu nitzlat tzli mibayom, b'chol makom yisbashel hashum v'hashemen, because it cooks. Says the Mishnah Berurah, k'neged hamedurah lav davka; d'hu adin b'ma'areves hashpud shetachuv al hatzli meha'esh, page kuf lamed tes. Kol zman shehu rote'ach, sheyatzit, ledes bo asur l'tochal. Afilu im hiniach achar kach al hakaira, shehu kli sheini, gam kein asur. This is all bishul story, right? This is all about bishul. Okay? Says the Mishnah Berurah, kol zeh b'shum v'shemen. The whole sugya over here is about shum v'shemen, davar chai, because it's not nisbashel. Aval b'shum shenikva, if it became gelled, mutar l'tocho afilu k'neged hamedurah, because there's no bishul because it's already mevushal. Aye, l'maaseh, something that's gelled, if you go and you melt it, you have a problem of nolad. Says the Mishnah Berurah, משום נולד ליכא. You don't have to worry about nolad. Why? כיון דנבלע בבשר ואינו בעין, which is our Mishnah Berurah over here, right? It's the same lomdus of our Mishnah Berurah over here, that it's not בעין; it melts into the water here, it's melting into the meat. Good? I saw shuim chidushim from the poskim of Eretz Yisrael about this sugya. I never knew this. This is new stuff for me. That's why I'm very excited tonight. A lot of this stuff was chazarah for me. I was repeating over old, you know, stuff. Tonight is this—I saw stuff, I was oinedishteimim today. Took a horrible day and made it beautiful. Not horrible, Baruch Hashem, I'm just exaggerating a little bit. Ein bo משום בישול, okay, but nolad, no problem, כיון דנבלע. ובלבד שלא ירסקנו בידיים. But you have to make sure that you don't crush it with your hands, דהני חנו עליו מעט מעט, והוא נימוח מאליו, a little bit, a little bit. Now why does it have to be a little bit, a little bit? Why can't you put it on? It'll be נימוח מאליו. I don't know, but whatever it is, I guess maybe that would be called מרסק בידיים. And that'll be a shtikel raya to what we spoke. Now make a quick chazarah, make a quick chazarah. We're discussing, I guess finishing off what we started yesterday, the crushing of the ice to put it into the kos. So shteit the Kolar one צד that it's mutar, because since it goes into the water, into the mashkeh, it's not b'ein and therefore it's mutar, right? Shteit. Rabbi Yoel wanted a taina that even if it's a little bit before, if you crush it before. So he wanted to say yesterday that only according to R' Moshe, who doesn't care about crushing, the only issue is that you want the water here, you don't want the water, so we allow to crush before. But according to the Mishnah Berurah, you wouldn't be allowed to crush it before. So he's taining if it's a little bit before, that's called l'toch hakos. It says, me'rasek b'yadayim, l'toch hakos. It doesn't have to be mamash like, you know, toch k'dei dibur, you can start crushing; it has to be toch k'dei dibur. I don't hear it so much, I don't hear it so much into the Mishnah Berurah. I hear the mashmaus of Mishnah Berurah is mashma that it has to be mamash, you know, you're crushing it. Unless he means that you're crushing on the way into the cup, like not in the cup but l'toch, and you're crushing it into the— In other words, it's, yeah, Rabbi Yoel is learning the Mishnah Berurah, l'toch hakos means that he's crushing it as it goes into the cup.

Huh? The ... is just niceing. It's again. Huh? No, I don't know. Pashut can mean that you put it in and let it melt inside. Shvirah says you're allowed to be merasek it. Chirsh is when are you allowed to be merasek it. So Ios in the sugya, you're allowed to be merasek it once it's in the kois, to merasek it ... into the kois, like. But he's saying even before putting it in. Okay, he's talking about seconds, chilukim, and I don't know. It's not muchach. But I'll tell you what the pel of the whole thing to me is. I'll tell you what the pele of the whole thing to me is. HaYitachen the Mishnah Berurah, who he himself says that you're not allowed to be somech on this heter. It's a mefurash in Mishnah Berurah in siman yud tes. Mefurash. I'm sorry, in siman yud ches. It's a mefurash in Mishnah Berurah, mefurash, mamash mefurash, on this thing of be'ena, putting it in, he holds you're not allowed to do that, be merasek b'yadayim to put it in. It says it clearly. I don't know why he just makes no mention of it. It's a pele. I have it in my notes, and when I was chazering, you know, just to see again before the shiur, I said, how come I didn't bring it? It's a mamash mefurash. Listen carefully. Oh, where is this? So you look at siman yud ches: asur litoyach shemen veshum al hatzli. See, yud tes. Asur litoyach shemen veshum al hatzli ba'idei k'neged hamedurah, afilu nitzlah hatzli mibayom, keivan makom mizdabela shum vashemen, because we're afraid of bishul. So you're not allowed to smear or crush onto this tzli. So Mishnah Berurah begins by saying that's all about bishul. What about if it's shumin shenikva? We're not talking about raw, but something that was a shumin that was gel. That's mutar. A field kneged, I'm a pturah. D'ein boi shum mishum bishul, kimshanin bishul. Ah, you have a problem of nolad. Mishnah Berurah says, mishum nolad. You see where the kuf mem hei is? What do you do, nolad? Like, kivan d'nivla ba'basar v'eino ben, which is our head, right? Mamash the same head. Just like over here it's not ben, here too it's not ben. U'vilvad shelo yarsikenu b'yadayim. Didn't the Mishnah Berurah see a lot of crusher with your hands? I don't know. Okay. Rak yanichenu alav mat mat. Now this mat mat I don't understand. Wait, wait, just put it on it, as long as it's me'alev, no? Unless he learns that if I put a lot on it, then the pshat is that itself is like a ma'aseh of making it melt. Maybe he's doing it b'kavanah. Put a lot, but not b'ein meizid. Why is it not brias me'lo? Same, because it's me'alev and it's davar shenivla. U'vilvad shelo yarsikenu b'yadayim. That's what I'm asking. I'm saying, you see the Yanav do it. I'm showing you the Mishnah Berurah says clearly, Yanav b'mirasek b'yadayim. It says clearly, Yanav do it b'yadayim. He says it clearly. U'lo yarsikenu b'yadayim, rak yanichenu alav mat mat v'hu nimuch me'eilav. It says it clearly. Mamash, you can't get more clear than this. And if you look at the Sha'ar HaTziyun, the Sha'ar HaTziyun speaks out, yeah? Ois kuf mem vav, v'Eliyah Rabbah kasav, d'lefi mah shebi'ur l'kamah siman shin chaf mem, Magen Avraham, d'kamah poskim sovrim d'mutar l'rasek b'lo toch hakos. So what do you do with this? I thought you're allowed to, which means that second shtickel Mishnah Berurah that says you're allowed to. Why din hachan demuter, l'chairut shemi muter. Says the Mishnah Berurah, v'tov l'hachmir l'chatchilah. He should really be machmir. V'gam sham meha Shulchan Aruch mashma l'hachmir. Says it clearly. He brings it down like it's mutar. It sounds like two people wrote these Mishnah Berurahs. This is mamash like it's two people wrote this Mishnah Berurah. He doesn't bring any chilukim, or there's tov l'hachmir, and that from the Shulchan Aruch is mashma not that way. I mean, it would be nice if he would tell me this whole shtikel Torah not in the context of Shulchan Aruch in siman yud-ches. It would be nice if he discussed it over here. Whatever it is, rabosai, because I'm already chiddush that you're never allowed to crush the ice into the cup. Ge'en, the kfartika gesheft. Tov l'hachmir. Tov l'hachmir means you have to be machmir. You didn't remember it? And how about in shin chaf, in the Mishnah Berurah, siman mem-alef?

This is so big, he doesn't even remember that we did ... Forget about the test. Later, he ... in ... Yeah. It says over there in ... mem aleph in the Mishnah Berurah. It's going on ... Yeah. So it says ... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But ain't ... pasak l'hakel, l'hakel, v'chein eliyah rabbah, because of l'hakel. That's the same Eliyah Rabbah from shin yud ches. Yeah, but he didn't say the sevara of the ... But then he says, im lo she'efshar b'lo Torah, tov lizaher. It's much better than ... He said it would be ... I mean, he's saying ... It's more of a ma'aseh. It's less than a ma'aseh. I'm not crushing it. It could be the Mishnah Berurah is samech on later, you mean? It could be Mishnah Berurah is samech. Because he learned all these halachos together, like. It's the same thing? No, it's three se'if from later. No what? I mean, it's the same kula, the same Eliyah Rabbah. No? It's not the same Eliyah Rabbah? I'm saying, why would he bring the v'yesh matirim and not tell you to ... that the Shulchan Aruch is not ... And the side of my Mishnah Berurah says ... Now what? That what it says over here in se'if katan mem aleph is not like the v'yesh matirim over here. Right. So you are the same shaylah, really. Huh? Obviously you are my shaylah. Okay. But why should he ...? He says over here. Okay, it's a shtickel, something's ... okay. ... Yeah, could be. That's what I'm saying. All right. ... All right. Okay. I told you it's mutar, but for different cheshbon. I didn't say that. I said that it was mutar because there's a difference between milk and water. What I said was right. Then Rebbe said that ... asur. He said the issur is that it's called nimaich, that's called nolad. But he has a special svara that this case is not a case of nolad. That's what I meant. I think that it's asur. What did Rav Shlomo Zalman say? What did Rav say from Rav Shlomo Zalman? I'm not a nervous person. I like calm. Calmly what I said was, I don't understand the cheshbon of nimaich me'eilav. I don't understand it, because the case of nimaich me'eilav is when you put it into a fire, you put it near something. So if I stop putting it at room temperature, I would say it's mutar. The poskim hold not like that. For some reason the Velt has a whole issue with that. So according to that, you shouldn't be allowed to take milk and take it out of the refrigerator. You shouldn't be allowed to take orange juice and take it out of the refrigerator, freeze it. So Rav Shlomo Zalman has a shikul Torah that milk is different, and it has this cheshbon. Everything puts me ... Why? Because by mayim it goes from this to that. That's what I told you yesterday. That's what I said, and that's what it says. What do you want me to say, that I hold differently than Rav Shlomo Zalman? I'm saying. I just thought that the Rav said that milk is ... That's what I said ten times. That's what I said was, that it has the issur of ... If you don't hold—let me explain to you—if you don't hold that a sevara... That you put a knegen on medurah, davka is aser, which I hold is true, then I don't know what the heter is. Unless you come with the lamdus shevart that it's the loychal, that it doesn't change, and da-da-da-da. I mean, then you have to come on to a new chap, that the milk is different, that orange juice is different. I don't know, you know, I don't hear it that well. I don't hear it. Just don't hear it. It comes out that it's only by water, maybe. The chiddush is that it's only by water, huh? I don't know where Rav Shlomo says. I wrote mutar aser. Okay, so let me repeat again. Let me calm, very calmly. I'll tell you what I meant, and I'll tell you what I think I said. And if I'm not clear, it's normal. I'm only a person. It takes time. I'm tired. It's normal. What I meant to say was that I strongly believe that nimoch me'eilav is not a sugya if you put it in room temperature. Let's use those words. Nimoch me'eilav means even the ramah that asers, when I put it in a place where it's melting. And that's every single solitary example that you find in Shulchan Aruch. You never find an example in Shulchan Aruch that something is melting by itself and it should be aser.

You know, fine, I'm fine. Okay. What I did say was that I'm a das yochid in this. I'm obviously alone on this because nobody says it. Everybody feels differently. Okay. Now, I know chap with the heter. Unless you say, Reb Shlomo Zalman, it's a chiddush. Someone wants to say that this is different because milked, and milked, it's really milk; it always remains milk. Mashenkin here, it's ices and water, and water and ices, and ices and water and water and ices. Mashenkin, milk is milk, but it's frozen. It's frozen milk. That does is mistama, that's the way I understood it. It's melted ices. It's melted ices. Not ice. It's not ice and water. It's melted ices. It does. Okay. Reb Shlomo Zalman is another gadol. I'm not—avadi shefollow what he says. I'm not. I'm just telling you what I believe. I can only tell you what I—okay. Now that I've successfully survived the onslaught of what you've given me the last two days, let's go to the next se'if, and then we'll see how we can tie it all up together. ... and we'll have beautiful, beautiful conclusion to the se'if, and then we'll go to shechitah of begadim, shechitah of things that have water in it. Okay. In se'if yud beis, shin chaf, se'if yud beis. Yesh lizaher shelo yeshafshef yadav b'melach. You shouldn't—shafshef means to rub your hands, rub your hands in salt. The first thing—you have to clean them, obviously—the first thing that goes through my mind is... Meshavshei. Meshavshei is a lashon—I'm sorry, yizaher is a lashon of to be careful. I don't know, is asur, is mutar? I know it's a funny lashon. If something's asur, the Shulchan Aruch should have said. You know, previous halacha doesn't say yesh lizaher. Previous halacha, it says clearly that—here it says a lashon of yesh lizaher. So the truth is, I was thinking maybe this is not really k'derech. Maybe risuk and sheleg and borer, this was normal ways on how they would take and make cold water, maybe. Mashenkin here, you're being meshavshei salt. Well, soon we're going to learn in the Mishnah Berurah that the salt is not the salt. The salt is to get to the water. Salt had water in it. The old days, the salt came from the ocean. So when you would rub it, water would come out of it, says the Mishnah Berurah. So that's a type of shiuruv meimav. Is that what people do? They rub salt to make water? So maybe it's only yesh lizaher. The whole thing is Rabbanan anyway, and it's a strange case of Rabbanan. I would say yesh lizaher. Problem is in Shin Chaf Gimel, sif yud, he discusses to use soap—Shin Chaf Gimel, sif yud—he discusses over there to use salt as a cleansing agent for pots, and the same cheshbon, you use the salt and the water comes from the salt, and there he doesn't use a lashon of yesh lizaher. Therefore there he says you're not supposed to do it. So, I don't know. It's a very nice vort. It's a beautiful—unless maybe, maybe, maybe for pots it was more derech; mashenkin here it's less. I don't know. I'm heading off in territory which I don't want to go, because it's chiddushim which I'm not 100% sure about. Okay, you have it? Yeah. He talks about the hafifus smell b'keilim. Yeah, so I'm saying over there it says with the... It says clearly. No, so I'm telling you. Isn't it because the salt breaks apart? No, so we're going to learn that that's not what it is. Okay, so we're going to discuss that. That's tonight's discussion. Okay, so let's go weiter. Nachamo. So, yesh li zahar shelo yeshafshef yadav b'melach. Okay? Shelo yeshafshef yadav b'melach. So the kasha is, what's the yesh li zahar? What's the... Says the Mishnah Berurah. Yeah, I didn't make it up. It's a פירוש Mishnah Berurah. So now let's see. Okay, see here my diyuk? It's a good diyuk. You maskim? Yesh li zahar, huh? No, but the lashon of the mechaber is not yesh li zahar. Lashon mechaber is clearly not yesh li zahar. I remember this clearly. It is not, I know, but the Shaar HaTziyun brings down the... Then what? Yeah, I understand he brings... That's what I'm saying. Obviously it's one din.

So I'm trying to tell you, it's obviously one din in the Yesh Lizar is lav davka. Okay, you ready? You learn new things every day, huh? Okay. Zogt the heilige Mishnah. You hear my diyuk, ksheini diyuk, ksheini raya, that l'choira the Yesh Lizar is not Yesh Lizar. Okay, so you're not allowed to do it. Now, says the Mishnah Berurah, hatam kenal, b'sheleg gabor, d'gam b'zeh yisavev mayim al yedei shifsuf, and the pshat, of course, is it was sea salt, and sea salt makes water. L'choira, l'fi zeh—this is a diyuk of the Mishnah Berurah, l'choira—that if it's not about water, right, stam just to chop up salt that's in a block, so to speak, l'chatchilah ketanais would be mutar, as eshtei. The whole issue is only this. L'fi zeh, l'fi zeh, l'fi zeh. Today, I don't believe in a million years that you can play with salt and make water from it unless you're a magician. I think derech hashulchan... look, I don't have a derech hashulchan, I gotta have to get a derech hashulchan, I can't take it. A lot of them I remember by heart, and then I get scared because I'm not 100% sure if I remember them right. This one I think I'm pretty much right about. Pretty much, just bring a derech hashulchan, just for the learning. Oh, you don't have—why you don't have? You don't have money, don't buy. Shul has the zeros without the two. They're working on the two. The two is not there yet. Okay, just maybe if you have a derech hashulchan, bring it with you tonight. I don't remember, you know what it is? It's hard to remember every— and then you get nervous because you're saying it in a shiur, but then almost close enough. I think there's a derech hashulchan. The Chashukim says that today this thing is not negeiah, because there's no water in salt, so what's it talk about? Okay. Sugar, according to this Mishnah Berurah, there's no shayla of taking a cube sugar and granulating it. Why? Because if the whole thing is about meimav, it's about the water, so there's vadai no sugya. Now, according to this, would there be any sugya of taking salt or sugar and putting it into tea and then it should melt in the tea? He says, peirus not. There's no story, and he continues with this, right? He says it clearly, Mishnah Berurah, right? V'hainu davka melech levad, aval mutar l'hashlich melach b'mayim, afilu harbeh v'litli yad mehem. And this is even—you're saying, v'hainu davka b'melach levad, aval mutar l'hashlich melach b'mayim, because there the cheshbon is that he taka thinks water is going to come out of it, but that water gets, like, be'en right into the thing, okay? But today, in our times, forget about the Aruch HaShulchan. Even if it wasn't with the Aruch HaShulchan that there's no water in our salt and in our sugar, it's still mutar anyway, okay? Why am I worried? Because then it comes out a big chiddush that it's not about anything more than the water. So if there's no water, there's no sugya here. The Tilul Dovid says not like that. You know, like I said, there's certain Acharonim, you see clearly that they didn't learn the din this way. The Tilul Dovid, siman ches se'if katan beis, he says clearly that you’re not allowed to be ma'ariv sugar in a tea. Not allowed to be ma'ariv sugar in a tea because it's risuk. Risuk is asur, l'shavshef. This is the sugya, right, the chiddush. He says, ay, asks a kashya, he says, l'maaseh, not everybody drinks tea on Shabbos, and they taka put sugar and they taka put whatever, salt, right? So he says that obviously the answer is it's only derabbanan. Now we have to use the heter of l'toich hakais, which is pretty much this Mishnah Berurah. Huh? What's wrong with it? I think what's wrong with it? But he held b'etzem, forgetting about— in other words, you see that he held it by sugar, not water. No, you see it has nothing to do with sugar. This has nothing to do with— I'm showing you, you see, not like the Mishnah Berurah. Mishnah Berurah talks about salt and water. You see, he talks about sugar, and sugar has nothing to do with water. He's cholek on the Mishnah Berurah l'chaira. It's a chiddush. That means you're not allowed to chop up— you knew that you're not allowed to chop up sugar on Shabbos. Again, are you allowed to chop up sugar on Shabbos? According to— according to tiltel davar, you're allowed to. Maybe melt when you get off the flavor better. Then therefore what? If somebody— the ma'ach, it's melted— it's melted ice, it melted sugar. But it's not breaking sugar; that's a different story. No, he holds it's your shafshei if there's not the water. I think there's a big difference between ice that will eventually become—

Water by being chopped up, and sugar, that there's no difference between a block of sugar and pieces of sugar. The Chayadim says your svara, but before the Chayadim, the Tzelach said it should be aser then. Heter is a tochach kais because it's only derabbanan. So I'm ready to shtick. I got very nervous because I learned the Mishnah Berurah where he said it has nothing to do with granulating things. Now let's do— There's no problem of teichen. Problem is reisek in this sugya. Let's take out the Chayadim. There's an interesting Chayadim over here, okay? A very interesting Chayadim. Chayadim says that you— yeah, he asks, you know, he holds you're not allowed to chop up sugar. Technically you're not allowed, but he comes up with a svara that since it was always ochel, now it's again ochel. There's no reisek. Sounds familiar? Sounds very much like Rav Shlomo Zalman svara by milk, no? Reisek of sugar here, Shabbos klal yud-daled, se'if yud-alef. I'm ready, Chayadim. I'm not sure what he means either. I'm not 100% sure what he means. Yeah, and what about the sugar? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Oh, he says nothing to do with the tea. This is stam, l'rasek b'yadayim. And what's his cheshbon? I would have said, what does that have to do with this Mishnah Berurah? This Mishnah Berurah is about water. This is what Shabbur is making a gush into a lach. Talks about lerasik shuger, to crush up sugar. He says, mutar. Why? He gives a cheshbon, which is really this sevara, which Reb Shlomo is. That's why I said, once I saw this, I say to myself, you know what? Yeah, it's not pshat it went from an ice cube to—it's always oichel, it's something else, you know. Huh? I guess. Toichen achar toichen, it's mutar. Yeah, moydeh geshtikl, yeah. I'm going to say a very wild chiddush. It's in my stomach for a few days, and I'm afraid to say it, but I want to say it. I'm afraid to say it. I hold that the sevara always is the pshat, risuk, because I made from a non-edible to some moylid, for example. Why was I created? From an oichel to a mashkeh is a problem. It's not so much the mashkeh; it's that I created from an ice, which is nothing, to an oichel, which is something. I created something new, yeah? And the meileh, the acharonim are saying gevaldige things. I took sugar. Sugar was sugar before, sugar after, so there's sugar cubes, and then there's sugar granulated, right? Milk, Reb Shlomo Zalman is saying, is milk and it's frozen milk. Today ice cubes are oichel. It's not sheleg. Sorry, it's not sheleg. Sheleg has no usage for it whatsoever. Sheleg is not a food. When someone comes to you, would you like some—I'll serve you some beans together with some snow. Would you like it? It's a snow cone. No one ever puts snow on the table as a dish. Yeah, they didn't have ice cubes in the old days. Ice cubes is an oichel. It's an—it could be a little different. Well, why is he putting the sheleg in his bard into his kais? It's water. Why is he putting the sheleg in the bard into his kais? Mayim is different. Mayim in different forms. It's mashkeh. What if it says cholov? What if it was cholov? It's mashkeh. By shemen? It's mashkeh. If it's—fanvia? ... Gel, because it's not edible. I hope by the gel...

The story over there is always... You asked not him. I'm asking you, not asking you. No, I'm saying, I would say bar is nice. Yeah, because it's l'kuv. So. I hold very strongly that, I don't know, Rabosai, one day the oilam will appreciate that I say things like this. This is a meridige vort. Now, I don't mean you. I mean to say is, you tell it to the average guy, he can't hear this. It's a meridige deher. It's a meridige upteish. So basically, you're batel daas maybe. Most people, you're talking about the ice cream. As a treat, you're saying my raya. I'm saying it. Ice cubes, people eat it. They put it on the table. They serve it at the table. You should know, I hold it. It's a few days already brewing inside. You'll appreciate eventually what I want. I want something. I want to push. ... It's a mashke. Could be from salad to this. What you're saying, frozen ice cream, is it a mashke? It's upside? Could be also even. Maybe. Maybe. Would you have ice cream that's frozen already, something new. I meant something new. ... What's the difference between if you have ice cream tray filled with juice? You hold a neilah anyway. You hold the Rambam neilah anyway. I don't know, it doesn't bother me. Even in shechitah does that. I hold ... that's what I'm holding. I'm holding, in my mind it's ochel dofrusa. In my mind it's this risuk. It's oichel. You see, let me explain to you the vort. Let me explain to you like this. Here's not a real... You know where I got this from? I saw it today also. I'm crazy about the Beis Yisroel, because they learn the whole life. There's a whole life behind every word they say. I saw that in Mishnas Karelitz, it says, ‘mayridike, mayridike chiddush, mayridike chiddush.’ He says this is not the real noylad, noylad, because noylad is when it's brand new in the world. This is around. This is here. It's a different noylad. It's a whole different noylad. It's here. What are you gonna say? It's a brand new zach like an egg? What are you talking about? No, in general, yeah. The whole reshus. I'm happy I got it out. I wasn't thinking of saying it, and I said, you know what, I want to say it. I really want to say this. I believe very much in the things that I say here. Yeah. Noylad u'molad. Omnam b'etzem, hach dina d'Michael shemen shenimoychim yesh bo משום נולד. הרי רובא שם סבירא ליה יש בו משום נולד. אלא דבעל התרומות סבירא ליה יש בו משום נולד. He's saying, what's the pshat in Beis Chillek and Beis Shammai? ... Noylad. V'shami kanidon mutar laskin l'chatchila משום נולד, aval b'yesodo ein inyan l'nolad d'asrin b'Yontif. It's not the real nolad v'asru on Yontif. ובשבת שרי מכילין בחולקם בדיעבד. Here. פסקינן בשבת ... ונולד ביום טוב נמי לא ... Here. ויש לומד לא אסר נולד ביום טוב אלא בנולד גמור. Look here, I gavna. He says it a few times over here. Here. מולד הוא דניבחדוסא ... מולד. When he says it over here a little bit kitzur, what? Here. Let me just read these words, but he also says it ... I read it quickly today, I saw it quickly, but it's these words. Here it is. So it's like a whole shtickel here. Here it is. ... נולד גמור ... בעולם. נולד גמור ... בעולם אסור בשבת וביום טוב. ... This is different nolad. Here. ... נולד גמור ... בתחילת העולם ...

Achneilus she'eino gomor, v'loy matchil boi, rak she'stam b'matzav loi. It's an avdasot noylad. I'm worried it's a shtikel. It's not regular noylad. Truth is, we threw this sevara out a few times. I don't know if you, between the lines, we kept on bringing it out. We'll suci Shabbos and Yontif. I'm going to get back to this. This is a little later. This is what I'm thinking. I'm thinking, klorei, that today the whole sugya maybe is not thinking. Okay, let's go weiter before I get to... There's a Tosfos, I remember the dibur hamaschil is mai b'eivi, that mechalek between nolad that's bichlal not ba'olam. Reb Shimon Yehuda, he speaks about it. So he's not referring to that? He is. He's going with that. After that, mimeila, he wants to have a whole new taich, reisuk. That's not real nolad; it's molid maybe, and that's why the Rishonim argue. Okay, let's go weiter, because it's turning into real pilpul here. Keep this in mind. Okay, now, pshat, that could be pshat in the Chayei Adam, rabosai, that oichel and oichel, it was ois oichel. See, pashut you can learn the Chayei Adam means it's oichel to lach, mashenkein by reisuk is yavish to yavish, like, so it's like it didn't go to a mashkin. Pashut, you can say that's what he means. It was always oichel, meaning it was dry, and now it's still dry, but I don't like the lashon. The lashon is mashma that it was oichel and remains oichel. Yeah, but who talked about oichel? This vort, from oichel to oichel. Got it on Facebook. So this is, this is this... I know. I didn't go that far. I just saw the Chayei Adam and I said, oh, I like it. Okay, now, are you allowed honey? Are you allowed to take honey? Sometimes the honey becomes hard. Are you allowed to, like, you know, chop it up to make it soft? Okay. So I hold it depends on the chayodam, right? If you learn that the sugya is what? Oichel to lach. Oh, this could be a little different. It's not the same as sugar. Sugar's takke is just never turns into a lach. The honey turns into a lach. Mashenkin, if you learn the chayodam, oichel to oichel, this is the oichel to oichel, it didn't change. To put it into the kois and let it melt, so l'choira, it's this yesh matirim, but the Shach Tzion tells us to be machmir, l'choira, that even risuk b'yadayim would be aser. So to chop it up into the— to take it and chop it into the tea, mix it around in the tea, would be that Shach Tzion, right? That should be aser according to that Shach Tzion, because it's risuk b'yadayim and yesh l'hachmir. Okay. Oh, that's what I wrote. I don't understand the whole shaila. What you do is, the honey becomes hard. The honey becomes hard. So there's three things you could do. You could either chop it up and make it liquid, and then put it into the tea. Or what you could do is, you could put it into the tea and then mix it around, right? Or you could put it into the tea and let it melt, then you mix it. You put it into the tea and let it melt. Let it melt. Okay. I want to end the sugya of risuk with the following. If you just give me another— there's no minyan anyway, so just give me a few minutes. Okay. Is that only if you make it into small pieces, or even if you put a big piece? No, you could put— mat mat. Yeah, I think by honey it's niker. It's nivla, it's niker. It's different. Honey and water is different. It takke melts into the thing. Okay. I want to show you that depending on the ta'amim of what the sugya risuk is, and melting and fat and so on and so forth, could be a very big nafka mina Shabbos and Yontif. I saw the Shmiras Shabbos K'hilchasa once, he brings a chiddush in perek yud-beis, halacha ches. He says a meredige chiddush, meredig, yeah? Perek yud-beis, yeah? A gevaldige, gevaldige chiddush, okay? Here. That's wrong, it's yud aleph. That could be a problem. No, no, the problem, I'm looking in the wrong perek. It's yud-beis, ches. Keilim shenitbe'u bahem shumen. What happens if you have keilim that have fat in it? Asur l'harich aleihem mayim chamin b'Shabbos. So you wouldn't be allowed to put hot water, you know, to soak it. Sometimes you want to soak on Shabbos. Aval mutar litnosen b'soch ha'mayim hachamim, okay? U'vYontif mutar b'chalofim. And on Yontif it would be mutar altogether. Says on the bottom, Rav Neuwirth, Shemati mehagaon Rav Shlomo Zalman, that why is it mutar on Yontif to put hot water on the fat? Aye, the fat is melting, and l'choira you have a sugya of risuk. You're melting fat, right?

You can't say it goes into the basar. The whole svara was that it goes into the meat. Here it's not going into the meat. Listen to what Reb Shlomo Zalman said. Harei mutar l'taggen shum b'Yontif. You see clearly that you're allowed to be metagen, you're allowed to fry stuff on Yontif. V'ein choshshin l'molid. When you take a piece of fat, especially on Pesach, that's what they used to eat, the schmaltz, and you need this maruf, this mitpregeltes, that you're frying it, it melts. Why isn't it aser, says Reb Shlomo Zalman, yeah? So you see from here that there's no problem of molid and nolad on Yontif. Now, of course, there's a nolad we know is aser, but molid and nolad that we're talking about, right? V'gam l'choireh shemutar l'rasik sheleg shelo b'Yontif lishtos hamayim, says Reb Shlomo Zalman. Therefore, the whole seif over here is only by Shabbos and not by Yontif. You're allowed to chop up snow and you're allowed to drink it; it's all good. It's all good. Okay. So l'choireh, Shabbos, you're not allowed. This molid nolad is—Shabbos, not allowed. Yontif, it is allowed. Reb Shlomo Zalman is chozer from this. If you look in the chelek gimmel, chelek gimmel on this seif, yud-beis, he's choilek. Stam someone was me'orer him. What? Okay, he answers more chumra. No problem, he answers more chumra. That's what they asked. I said, the whole nolad. So I told them, it's not even nolad. Even the molid, the nolad was tzachaptas, this knemas is nolad. Okay, so he brings down that it's worse, and therefore he's chozer from it. Are you'll read it here. Here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? Yud-ches, yud-beis. Orach Chaf Tes. Okay. Uh-huh, uh-huh. Here it is. Afilu hataz... moiled gam l'tzorech heichel nefesh. Taz is... is moiled l'tzorech heichel nefesh. Rak lashon is ha-dovar ma shehaya, v'lo l'holid davar chadash. Aval kol zeh dafka k'mo b'emtzas eish b'Yontif. Masha'en kein l'havshil shumin, shehapin mutar, k'mo shemutar l'havsil lavashal, k'mo she'esmo. Okay. He's choizer. I don't know, but he's me'orer this shaila. I thought I remember that he was choizer, but... This could be different. V'mutar l'havshil shumin. No, fakert, he's not choizer really. But he says that you'd be mutar because it's not mamash moiled on Yontif. Here, okay. Now let me show you a peledike chiddush here. According to this, right, if you hold it, you're allowed to do it. So that makes a lot of sense why we take, let's say, a soup on Yontif that's right out of the freezer and we cook it. It's frozen soup. Otherwise, if you're not allowed to do it unless it's into the basar, so how do you ever cook anything on Yontif? Anything that has a lot of gravy, or a soup is zicha also, yeah? So I see this is a... Shabbos is best, Yontif is erger. You're not allowed to cook soups on Yontif. Frozen soups. I almost fell off my chair when I saw it. Who has my Reb Nissim Karelitz? Tamei dike zach, yeah? It says like this. Goes through the whole cheshbon that Yontif is erger. Obviously we have to... I'll be with you, and we'll daven in a minute, okay? Levashel ma'areches Yontif, mishum isa moiled, vadai mutar. Als noylad, it's mutar. Ach mishum oso noylad b'Yontif, d'u isur muktzah, tachneilus d'chelga. So, a eitzah, he gives advice: haniach b'soch hamerak mayim. First you have to put water inside. And I guess water, I'm not really sure. Huh? Because it's not niker. It has to be a lot. You're killing the soup. What's the melachah? Put a lot of water, and then you're allowed. No? Huh? The whole noylad is by Yontif. By Shabbos it's not even so poshut, noylad. I don't think it's maybe noylad. Okay. Oh, that we spoke before. I didn't say that lashon. We spoke. Noylad is... that's... And Mishnah Berurah seems to put it together in a few places. Right, but the Mishnah Berurah here, in Shin chaf aleph, he says there's noylad and noylad, and he brings noylad, and he says, I don't want to bring noylad.

In Shin Yud Tes, he says clearly, moylin and noylin is put together. In Shin Yud Ches, he puts together, makes moylin and noylin, it's all interchanging. But in Shin Chaf Aleph, he says clearly, there's moylin and noylin, and he says, I don't want to speak about noylin.