Hilchos Borer: Defining Shtei Minim by Name, Taste, Appearance, Use, and Texture

Transcript

How's it gonna stop? It'll stop. Press the watch. That's one will stop. And then, for a few seconds, and then the shot. And it'll shut me. And I should just leave it on the table. Which one? That's what you want. Untap. Untap. One attach. Okay. Big part of buyer. Yeah, yeah, sure, sure. What happened with your brother? Okay. A big part of buyer is the inyan of min echad and shtei minim. That's an essential part of buyer. What? I'm sorry, continuation of last... could be, maybe. But the point is that we have to identify what creates min echad and what creates shtei minim. Hagdarah. We have to be magdir what makes min echad, what makes shtei minim. So the emes is that there's a very big nafka mina in what's called shtei minim. We can have many different things that could cause something to be shtei minim. And I'm going to list five things which are possibly something which creates from a min echad shtei minim. The first thing is if it's chaluk b'shem. Something has a different name. Cholik b'sheim could create shtei minim. Then we could have something which is cholik b'taam, tastes different. Maybe something that tastes different creates shtei minim. Then we can have something which is cholik b'tashmishin, which means its usage. Its usage is different. It's used differently. Cholik b'tashmishin. Then we could have something which is cholik b'tzurah, looks different. Sometimes it could be the same min, different tzurah. And then finally we could have something which is cholik in texture, soft and hard, soft and hard. Cholik in texture. Sometimes it's softer, but it's the same min, same min. The Mitzvah Hashem soon we'll have examples for all these cases. So what creates, which of the above criteria create shtei minim? That's the question. Ba'ir, if it's min echad, there's no problem. We did learn that gedolim u'ktanim, that we learned in the Mishnah Berurah, in Reish Rema, in se'if gimmel, that gedolim u'ktanim is not an issue, right? Ta'ifud. Chol shnei minim, dagim ikri shnei minim, ochel v'basar l'rechim chaveroi, af al pi shechatichas gedolos. Kol shehu min echad, af פי שברך תיזדסן קטנות. L'choira, that's what it looks like, right? Gedoylim and ketanos, big and small, is what it looks like. It's possible that that's size, different tzurah. But then you can have different tzurah, which is not necessarily in size. For example, you know, you could have round and square, different colors. Different colors. The second example that I wanted, different colors. So what creates shtei minim, and is this included in gedoylim and ketanos? So, nachon, I just want to be very clear, because this is going to be the yesod, the yesod of all the halachos. So again, what is min echad, and what is shtei minim? What is min echad, and what is shtei minim? Shouldn't be תלוי on the daas of a man whether he would pick it or not? Would he pick one over the other or not? Or by zogt gedolim ketanim also? If you're referring to daas ha'adam, then gedolim and ketanim is like that way as well. You see that there is such a thing that different entities create shtei minim, and the question is what creates a different entity? Is it chiluk b'shem? Is it chiluk b'tam?

Maiseh boirer is on the cheftza rather than the gavra. Because if it would be on the gavra, let it be talui in daas adam, what he picks. What to him is a choosing. But you see that if what he chooses by daled minim doesn't change. What I'm saying, so doesn't that automatically mean that the boirer is focused on the cheftza, whether it's boirer b'cheftza? Before even cheftza, you have to first create it to be shtei minim to be a problem of boirer. Before anything, before we even talk about ochel and psoles, there has to be a shtei minim. So what makes two minim out of something? Is two minim that it has different name? Is two minim that it's a different taste? Is two minim that it has different purposes? Right, but ultimately that's just determining whether this person is doing a boirer or not. No. Ultimately determines if it's something that you're being mevarer between two things. If it's stam to דין two things, two things makes this a melacha chashuvah. Two things makes it boirer, not chashuvah. No, no, it's boirer. Selection has to be between A and B. Even if it's not enough to be considered two minim, he's still making a choice. You see that that's mutar. When a person makes a choice in one min, that's why I'm calling it a melacha chashuvah. I don't mean chashuvah like, like, like hotzaah, whatever. I just mean that boirer has a certain metzius to it, and not everything fits that picture, even though בעצם he's choosing. But so how do you answer one min? In one min, a person could pick a certain part and not want the other part, and still it's a problem. You know, maybe your answer, maybe at the end of all the information, maybe things will become clear. Maybe you mean something else and I mean something else. Maybe we're just not, like, karov zeh lazeh. This is a good way to speak in. Is it name? Is it taste? Is it tashmish, usage? Is it tzurah? And what is tzurah? Tzurah can mean size, color, shape. It can mean many different things. Then you can have texture, eichus. It's different in eichus. So let's see what the Mishnah Berurah gives as examples of two minim. Mishnah Berurah, seif katan tez-vav, says the Mishnah Berurah, the basar tzli u'mevushal mikri beis minim. Basar tzli u'mevushal is called two minim, l'inyan zeh. V'kol shekein basar shel minei ofos mechulakim. So the first example is basar tzli u'mevushal, so it's the same meat. You're talking about the same piece of meat, but one is tzli and one is mevushal. That's called, mikri, that's called beis minim, l'inyan zeh. Now, l'choira I could come and say that the difference between tzli u'mevushal is all of the above. It's all of the above. It has different name, maybe. Tashmish? Well, tashmish is really not, but everything else but that, you know what I'm saying? Right? I don't know about tashmish. Tashmish might be a little different. Right, right. Tashmish could be. I could have it by food also, by the way. I'll show you where it's in the Shulchan Aruch, too, talks about it by food. It's not here. It's in siman taf-kuf-daled. But let's just say it has most of the criteria. It has different name, maybe. Maybe, and I say this maybe because maybe not. But I do know there's such a thing called a pot roast, the pot stew, and then there's such a thing called a roast, right? So could be it's different. Could be it's a whole different entity. Definitely tastes different, right? Does it look different? I don't know. Does it look so much different? I'm not sure, okay? You can tell me about it. Texture maybe, but it definitely has most of the differences, okay? You can't tell the difference between a French roast and a... A French roast is the name. A French roast is because it's a type of meat. Roasted and cooked. Roasted and cooked is a very big nafka mina. Soup chicken. I'm just saying, you go to Kosher West and you look in their meat section, they have four different types of roasts. Yeah, it's a fancy business, I hear, but... But the difference between baked, cooked, and roasted, that you can... Okay. So the question is, which chilukim does this tzli and mevushal have that we could apply in halacha l'maaseh, okay? So it definitely has different taste. I would definitely give it that it has different taste. Does it have different name? Possibly.

Or maybe not. Maybe there was just basar. Maybe, you know, in the times of the Mishnah Berurah, we didn't have all these fancy names. I don't know if we had these fancy, you know, roast or pot. I don't know. Are you so sure about it? Maybe, well, maybe you have chicken that you fry at night and chicken that you cook, chicken and baked chicken. It's the same chicken. It's the same chicken. Both called chicken. They're not different names. Not different names. Or maybe, yeah. Or maybe, yeah. By meat, you hear a little bit more because today we gave it different names. Today we gave... Yeah, so that's the question. So the question is, by basar tzli and basar mevushal, do we say that there's a difference in what it is? That's a very good question. So definitely, l'choira, it has the condition of chalukim b'ta'amam, but I'm not sure. I'm mesupak if it has chalukim b'shmam, and maybe it does, and if it does, maybe I need both. Maybe in order to consider it as shtei minim, I would need both. So this is this Mishnah Berurah that we have to be me'ayein in. Maybe that's the kol shekein. The Mishnah Berurah brings basar... This is what I want. By kol shekein, we'll soon see. By kol shekein, that's exactly what I want to say pshat. Then the Mishnah Berurah brings down in the hemshech different oifos mechulakim. So here he says it's kol shekein. Why is it kol shekein? So either you could say kol shekein because it's taka two different minim. When it's basar, it's one min, and we're trying to split hairs to make it into two. But where it's taka two different minim... So then it becomes kolshekein. Why does it become kolshekein? Because maybe you don't need any of the chilukim. Once it's a different thing, it's a different thing. A turkey is not a duck, and a duck is not a chicken. Or the kolshekein is that it also has different names. So this is how to learn up the Mishnah Berurah. Nachama. Either you learn the Mishnah Berurah, either you learn the Mishnah Berurah as follows. You learn the Mishnah Berurah that tzli and mevushal is two different ways to make the same chicken, two different ways to make the same chicken, the same meat. But it's meat; it's the same. A dilma, maybe the pshat is fakert. Pshat is that it's takkeh has different names. So what's the kolshekein? The kolshekein might be that by chicken and duck, that has two different names. Or dilma, or maybe fakert. It has nothing to do with names. It has nothing to do with chiluk b'taam. Even if it tastes the same, it happens to be two different things. That's the two ways to learn this Mishnah Berurah. Okay. Now, I would say very bichlal. You ready? What happens if you cut up the turkey and you cut up the chicken, so you can't even tell the difference as far as what it looks like, yeah? You can't tell the difference maybe in taste, maybe, which is not even muchach, that's a pashut, right? So what would you call such a thing, right? It's the same turkey, right? So if you learn it's shtei minim, b'etzem it's shtei minim, so what's the difference? There's halacha of shtei minim even if it's the exact same. But if you learn that it's shtei minim because a taka has all the other ma'alos, not always. You take the breast of the turkey, meaning the white part of the turkey and the white part of the chicken. I don't think a guy can even tell if it's k'mat. It's almost impossible. The white, if you cut it up in a slice, what does a guy know? So it's shayach that that would be a nafka mina, min and shtei minim. It's a shayla, pashut, clear. Where does the shayla become? Why should it be a problem? Why should it be a problem if it looks like all one min? This person is choosing one over the other, right? If he doesn't know b'chalal, so then what shayach here, l'tapeshmai galya it's two minim? I don't care if he does know. Who cares? Because it's not breirah. Who cares? He's picking. Let's say he is picking. He's picking one, but not for no... He's picking between a chicken and a duck, and I'm asking—sorry, chicken and turkey. Of course he can tell the difference. He's not just taking the first piece. But I'm telling you different. How does he know the difference? Whatever they did, his mother told him, This is the turkey and this is the chicken. What's the difference? The point is—

In a situation where you taka can't tell, and he's just choosing, he's just choosing that piece, a bigger piece. He brings you, say, shnei minei oifos. Maybe it's still in the oif. Let's say he mamash can't tell. The only difference is gedolim and ketanim, so he's doing by— I understand, I understand, but that's only by one min. This beis is two minim, so he is choosing. He is choosing. Even in one min he's choosing. I understand, but that choosing is not aser by one min. Why? So this is the same part. It's the same pshat. Yeah, but maybe this should be considered one min, since the only reason why he's choosing is because of gedolim and ketanim, not because— Again, it's not necessarily choosing because of gedolim and ketanim. It's very possible one min. Let's say a guy in one min chooses because he likes the taste. That's not wrong. One min is not a— Again, so what makes— so I'm asking, you have to identify what creates the shtei minim by oifos. What is it? Is it the fact that it has a different name? Is it the fact that it looks different, it tastes different? What's the reason for it? I'm just coming to negate the tzad that it should be b'etzem two minim without any— I hear that. What? I hear that. What he's saying. No, the opposite. What I'm saying, yeah. If it's two minim, it's two minim. It's two minim. I'm saying you— This is chicken, this is turkey. He can't tell. You can't tell. But you can't tell. That's why— Why should taicha preive? It doesn't look like— Faltiel, he almost canceled the shiur. I almost canceled the shiur. Kamat left. Like, if Faltiel's not here, it's obviously not a good shiur and he left. Should we move on to shechita? Should we move on to shechita? Maybe it's not even— No. I had— I had... take care of. No, I know, I know. No, no. No, it’s like a... Mr. No, so, so. ... Mr. Bro. I love, you know this, I love the Chofetz Chaim. I grew up with the Chofetz Chaim. I can’t explain what it does for me. I, you know, I heard so many times the way the Chofetz Chaim spoke. My grandfather and grandmother used to say over the way the Chofetz Chaim would say things. You could not have his voice in my head. It’s like I say it. Your grandmother knew how he spoke? She lived by him. My grandfather was thirteen years sitting by the side of the Chofetz Chaim. The famous picture of the Chofetz Chaim, my grandfather’s in that picture, the one smoking a cigarette to the right. By the levayah, with the sefarim, the famous picture, my grandfather’s standing right there also, עומד standing right there. So it’s interesting, בחייו ובמותו. In my grandfather’s study, he had two pictures. He had a picture of the Chofetz Chaim and a picture of a yeshiva rabbi. Little pictures hanging on the wall, little. I saw him many a time just standing, staring at those pictures. He would just stand there and stare at those pictures. He saw a world that disappeared on him. That world disappeared. He came to America and there was something... it disappeared. And he always, you know, he kept in his drawer the kever of Rav Naftali, Rav Levinson. One more, there was a Rav Hirsch. There was Rav Hirsch Levinson, and there was another one. There was three. He had three pictures. There was a son and a son-in-law, or maybe Rav Sachs. Well, not Sachs. Levinson's a son-in-law. Levinson's a son, but there's a son. There was a son, maybe. Reb Leib. Reb Leib. I think he had those three pictures. I have those pictures. I have all those pictures. I have them in a box. I was the one who stole them. I stole them and kept them. He used to stand and stare at them. I think when he had hard times, that's what he used to... it was his chizuk. That world that he... My bubby was a rabbin. My bubby was born a rabbin. My bubby used to do the dishes Friday night. She's to wash the dishes. I'm not allowed to do that, but in rabbin they used to do it. I used to wash the kids. I told you the ma'ases, the stuff, and all about the dressing. I told you the story of the dress. My bubby was there when the Chofetz Chaim, they asked him if he wants a hearing aid. He said, I worked my whole life not to hear. They used to give him a ton, I don't, you want me now to start hearing? My bubby was there. So I remember the way she used to say it over: Cook, cook. She used to always do it, cook.

Yes, ... she could get ... So I don't know if she said a word for it, but that's how she used to say it. That was the... Chofetz Chaim used to call it tzivinkeh. ... of my grandmother, the speakers all brought out how my grandmother used to say all the time how the Chofetz Chaim used to call it tzivinkeh. Her name was Tzivia. In Radin, everything was keh: Atishalem, mitabenkalem, mita... We used to make chizuk of my grandmother: a salamtaleh. Not salami, it was a salamkaleh. It had its leh. The eidelkeit that they saw in the Chofetz Chaim's home is something out of this world. But he told me that when the Chofetz Chaim wanted to eat more, he wanted more food, he would say—he'd call his, whatever, his rebbetzin—‘Efsher a bissel noch koach avodas Hashem.’ He used to call the potatoes ‘a bissel noch koach avodas Hashem.’ He wasn't giving me more food. They weren't blunt. Everything was adinus. Tremendous adinus. Chofetz Chaim was an adin hanefesh. Tremendous adin hanefesh. So I told him the story—you heard the story with the dress, right? I told you. His wife? His wife. Yeah. No, it's good. A different—I'll tell you the story with the dress, but I'll tell you a different... I don't remember. What story with the dress? You want to hear it? Of course. Chofetz Chaim. I'll tell you what, most of the oilam heard it now. Oh, oh, oh. You want to hear it again? No, no, no. Okay, you want to hear it? No, I don't want to hear it. Fine. No, no, no. Most of the... No, I meant to say I don't want to feel—I don't... No, I want to hear it. You want to hear it? Okay, that's it. For him. Nimnu v'gamru. Nimnu v'gamru. Never forget how my grandfather never woke up people for davening. Never. You know what? He never woke up people for davening. Chofetz Chaim held you're not awake for people for davening. Have a breakfast. Breakfast is if they want to eat, it's for them. Ruchnius, ruchnius is their business, not your business. I yeshiva, I once asked him, there was no waking up. Yeshiva was different because that was the misgeres. You came to yeshiva to be part of yeshiva. But if you were a guest in the Chofetz Chaim's house, he wouldn't wake you up. He wouldn't wake you up. We had guests that would come for Shabbos, they would sleep right through davening, just come for the meal. Say, we had people, you know, ... Never. They'd let them sleep till after davening. Tazen nisht oif. Tazen nisht oif. I ever told you a story with the bed? I ever told you? Okay. When I—it's okay, it's all right, the olam's happy, it's okay, yeah. Maybe they'll excite the olam, then they'll come to learn b'poier. Chofetz Chaim. When I was a child, my grandmother once went to Boston. Rabbi Kellerman is my uncle, and he's in West Hampstead. Originally he's from Boston. He was the rav in Brookline, he's the youngest rav in Brookline, Massachusetts. So she had a baby girl. She had a baby girl, and my grandmother went to help, to help out. She went all the way to Boston. I think the first time my grandparents were not together, you know, for Shabbos. I mean, it was like a big thing. So I went to be with my grandfather. So as soon as I came, I must have walked into the house at eight o'clock. I came home from school at six-thirty. I ate, and then I went—sent me straight to sleep. I was like... No, yesterday night I walked into the room straight to sleep. He tells me, I came to be with you, to watch you. Oh no, straight to sleep, he tells me. Sleep, that's it. He was sent me to sleep. Why? I should wake up to my... maybe I daven Maariv, yeshiva, maybe it was with the night. Straight to sleep. I felt terrible because I wasn't ready. Eight o'clock I had to go to sleep. I was an eighth grader, it was a seventh grade, I don't know. Okay, kids, I was laying in bed. He laid me in his bed, in his bed. I saw the clock just kept on going. I mean, you're talking about, I was doing nothing for hours. I was laying in bed for hours, the lights were off. He kept on coming into the room, kept on coming into the room, peeking in. I still remember seeing the clock, one-thirty, a quarter to two. And he kept on peeking into the room. Lemaisa, the next morning he asked me how I slept. So I told him I slept good, whatever, this and that. But I asked him, what's the pshat? He kept on looking into the room, and I didn't understand, like, were you watching me? I didn't have the whole... tell me... from about eleven...

The Chofetz Chaim wanted to go sleep. He was very tired. But he wanted to make sure that I was sleeping first. Why? Because the bed, the other bed, creaks. It was an older bed. It creaks. It made a lot of noise. So if I was not in strong sleeping, I would wake up. And the Chofetz Chaim was... I thought it was from Mars. There were things that came out of his mouth, and I was like, Is he talking about...? The Rav knows the maaseh with the Chofetz Chaim. There was a boy that wasn't accepted into Radin. He was a very... Maizeh told him the story. What do you mean? The Chofetz Chaim gave him his coat. Gave him his coat. And then Shpeter, when this guy was... gave all the money, gave him money. Very smendach. Maizeh told me a maaseh about that. Chofetz Chaim's maaseh is like this. See, tonight is Chofetz Chaim. There was a guy who came—I'll tell you exactly how Maizeh told me. There was a guy who came to yeshiva, and they used to feher the guy if he was a koifer. Forget about knowing how to learn. Today you feher a guy if he's good learning, otherwise they don't let him into yeshiva. Then they used to declare if he was a maskil. So Rav Levinson decided he's a maskil. He doesn't belong in yeshiva. The next morning the train was out. There was no train already for tonight, so shaila what to do with him. So they went to the Chofetz Chaim to ask, Vos zol men ton mit em? It was cold also, no? Nothing. He has to sleep somewhere. Can't sleep in the street. What are you supposed to do with him? So they went there. There's a lot of sleeping in yeshiva. Chofetz Chaim said, Yeshiva tarnishlaf. A maskil or a hashpa... a tarnishlaf in yeshiva. So they asked him, So what do we do? So what's the shaila? Shlaf in a min shtub. Yeshiva tarnishlaf? A Yid is a— He's a Yid. You're talking about a koifer. You're talking about a person who's a koifer. Today they would take him... How old was he? ... Chaim looked at it. This is the lashon, especially the fragi. He didn't even know what the question was. Not להיות בישיבה, because now להיות בישיבה, but he's allowed to be in a Jewish home. Especially, stam the Chofetz Chaim didn't want him in anyone else's house. He wanted to think about him; it's the least of the problems if he's by him. Kids in the middle of the night, the guy almost got a heart attack because somebody started walking into his room. Somebody walks into his room. Maaseh was, the Chofetz Chaim took his coat, ... because it was cold. Did you check first? No, yeah. This, I don't know. I heard the way—this is, I'm telling you word for word how my zeide told me when he put his coat on. The guy was so nispoel that the Chofetz Chaim went, took his own coat and gave it to him, that he said even years later he remained a maskil, ... because of the Chofetz Chaim. So my zeide said like this: You see, the Chofetz Chaim with his coat warmed him all his life. ... I remember that's how my zeide said it over. The way I heard the maaseh, the person that told me said that he said—there's somebody asked him, like, Mai hai? Like, you give money for yeshiva so much, like, I don't understand. There's no sefarim here. So he said that the Chofetz Chaim warmed him. So he said that, yeah, that he still feels the warmth. I know this is how my zeide said it over. I'm just saying, you see it's interesting because it's the same nusach, but it's—okay. I'll tell you one more maaseh, then we'll take. They used to have to put away the sefarim in yeshiva, okay? Every guy had a turn, like sefarim. Kitza, for a few weeks the guys would do it, then they would stop doing it. But the sefarim were put away anyway. Sefarim were always put away. So they went over to the guys and said, Did you put away sefarim last? He says, No, I ended up not doing it. What about you? You did the day before? No, I didn't. She couldn't figure out who's doing it. So they had somebody stay up all night to catch the culprit early in the morning, who's doing it. And Mezayde was the guy that stayed up. You know, it's typical Mezayde, to stay up to find out who did it, yeah? Mezayde said, you know, four o'clock, whatever, early in the morning, I hadly someone walked in the seminary, start cleaning up all this stuff. I can tell you, I have it all written down. Do you still have the dress story? The what? The dress story. That's how we got into the whole conversation. The dress story is... This is not for the books. This is not for public consumption, but it's... The second rebbetzin of the Chofetz Chaim was a little more moderning. Again, that's how they say it over. I don't know the history, and I don't know the books. I just know what I heard in my house. She was a little more moderning. So the latest style was a dress of two colors. Half the dress was blue and half the dress was a different color, maybe red. All right, but let's not go there. Okay, it was half and half, all right? Okay. So what happened? The Chofetz Chaim's rebbetzin was the first one in town to get this dress. And my bubby used to, I'll never forget the words, it was the talk of town, she told me. It was the talk of town. Everybody was talking. You saw the Chofetz Chaim's rebbetzin's dress. You saw she got the latest style. And everybody was wondering when she's going to wear it, what's going to be the occasion that...

It's gonna be the first, okay, the first that she's gonna come out with this dress. It was Friday night, that Friday night, and my bubby was by the Chofetz Chaim that Friday night. She was babysitting and cleaning the dishes. She stayed there for a meal. She was by the meal. Rebbetzin comes out with the dress. My grandmother told me it was stunning. It was like the biggest thing in the world. Like everybody was—like my grandmother was like, couldn't wait to tell everybody, Yeah, that's it. She came out with it. The grand, you know, the grand coming. The Chofetz Chaim picks his eyes up. He looks. Now, I'm gonna tell you how my grandmother said it. My grandmother made it like the Chofetz Chaim had no idea. And the Chofetz Chaim turns to my bubby and he says, Tzivinkeh, tzivinkeh, kuk vi orim iz es. Ki darf לייגן צוויי שטיקע שטאָף צו זיין מאַכן a dress. To put together two pieces of schmattes to make a dress. He looked at the dress. My grandmother used to say, For me it was the Chofetz Chaim. He said, What? What do you mean, we're poor? See, that's the men of—the heimishe men taineh. He's zicher, he was giving a mussar. Puncty's gonna make fun of his wife's dress. I don't know. All I can tell you, I can tell you that in Radin they didn't feel that the Chofetz Chaim was like that, and that's what I want to tell you. I always come back to this story. In Radin, they didn't believe the Chofetz Chaim was like that, that the Chofetz Chaim had kanoyus and being musser. He wasn't like that. They taineh he was not like that. And I'm sorry. Again, I'm telling you, listen, I grew up by two people who grew up in the house of the Chofetz Chaim, loy mosh miyadam. They didn't leave the hand. You're talking about mamish— They didn't talk like this. They held the Chofetz Chaim's tomim day. It was so temimusdik, you know, was flying. In inyanei, you know, kanoyus. I think the goylim knew him better, no? I'm just repeating all this. I could just tell you what I heard. I don't know the Chofetz Chaim. I don't know and I don't claim to know. I just repeat. What was his words? We're so arum, poor? Could be arum isen. We're so poor. ... machina dress. It's classic. Where are you gonna hear a story like that? He embodied both. He had both. He had the temimus, but he knew the Yaakov Avinu, Chazal say by Yaakov Avinu. Yeah. I remember, I remember Reb Pam zatzal. Reb Pam was sitting in an office back at the Tesla, the urologist, together with Moshe Sherer. Two of them were sitting by a urologist. There was the prostate years, you know, the years of the prostate. They were saying, Elder mentioned that prostate trouble to the urologist. I was there, taking a relative of mine. I was the driver. We sat in this office, and Rebbetzin Pam was going at it. She was talking about the whole world. And it bothered Reb Pam. We saw he didn't like it. Didn't say a word. I'll never, as long as I live, I'll never forget Reb Pam's response. He used to wear his glasses like this, Reb Pam. He kept on looking up at her and staring and looking back down, looking up. He was eating at him. Don't talk. He didn't want her to talk. He couldn't say a word. He was saying one word. Not one word came out of him. He just kept on looking. You saw, and every time she said something sharp, he'd pick his eyes up. It was something to watch. The purity and the tzidkus of Eisgarveti. I grew up in that. I can't tell you differently, because that's what I saw. I know that my grandfather, my grandmother, not a word of mussar ever, ever. Whatever she did was kodesh kedoshim. Didn't make a difference. Bubby tazeigin volt. That's the way it was, and that was kodesh. The mamet, she didn't call her mam. The mamet, the mamet tazeigin volt. I once told you, we had a Pesach Seder under an hour. The Pesach Seder one year was under an hour. He came in, the mam is farmatet. Bubby's tired. That's it. The Seder's zhu, right through the whole Seder. Done. And I remember as children, Bubby prepared and we wanted... It was rabbin. Rabbin was something that's unique, very unique. It's very hard. I don't think the oilam can even understand it today. It's so... All right, that's it. I'm sorry, I have to go back to the Mishnah Berurah. Okay. I hope you're not going to...

Oh, these maises, Dad. Oh, the written. The written, okay. Kasma luach lidecha. Be like that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's a classic. One day, you know—oh, rabosai, I want to tell you a ... thing. Next Motzaei Shabbos, we have a tremendous ... I hope it's going to work out. Moshe Green's uncle, Rabbi Schechter, the one that I talk about, the grandfather's in town. We once had a ... So the son, Rabbi Schechter's son, was there. He asked me if we can make another ... with his grandfather in the shul, and he's going to bring Rabbi Schechter. They're going to bring him with a wheelchair. Rabbi Schechter—it's sad. The grandfather that sings. The grandfather that sings. You were there last time? Yeah. So I think it's a tremendous... And the person from that you visit. It's tremendous. That's a... It's not this one, the one after. Tolbus. That's just Tolbus. I was thinking—I'll tell you how it came to me. You know, I spoke about Bikkur Cholim, so I go, you know, and I was thinking, how can I get to get the whole oilam to go? And I can't make people—I mean, how do you get the oilam? So I said, Ribbono Shel Olam, how do I do it? Then he, like a day or two later, he offered me this. I figured, you know something, if we can't go to do the Bikkur Cholim, I can bring the Bikkur Cholim here, no? That's what the Eibishter is telling me. So I don't know if it'll work out. I don't know if it's—I'm just saying. Huh? People are busy. It's not easy. So go ahead, let's go. I mean, I go. What should I tell you? I do my end of it. I go. I'll tell you, that should be the least of the problems. Okay, getting back to where we're holding. So, lemaaseh, boirer, boirer. I have to one time sit down with you and tell you all the ma'ases. It's all written down. I used to learn my zeide every Shabbos. Okay, so obviously tonight is a special night. I used to learn with my zeide Shabbos, yeah. So the winter we learned Maseches Brachos, and the summer we learned Avos, and then he was niftar, one year. From my bar mitzvah, as soon as I had my bar mitzvah, he said, We'll learn with you. So he would learn with me. Not even a line. I think the first four words in the Gemara, and then it was straight to ma'asim l'Chofetz Chaim. That was it. Story after story. I don't think I learned more than an amud Gemara through the whole year. Not even. I don't think it was even an amud Gemara. And the Mishnayos was mamash, it started Mishnah, and then there were just stories and stories. And I wrote them down after Shabbos, never thinking one day it's going to be such a big, you know, who knows? Like, you know, today people come to me, tell me more and more, give it to me. You know how many times they sent my notes to Eretz Yisrael, these books, the Meir Yisrael? I just sent them, they don't know what to do with it. I never knew it'd be one day a whole, you know, ma'ases, ma'ases, ma'ases. It's the dor we live in. Fine. Now, the kitzur. So shtei minim, we said, could either be cholek b'shem, different names, cholek b'taam, cholek b'tashmishim, which is hard to know by food, but I will show you by food a case of cholek. You know what, since it's not going to be enough time to get to the end of the shiur, I'll just cheat to you a little bit. You know how cholek b'tashmishim could work out? Let's say you have matzah meal. So you have thinner ones and thicker ones. The thicker ones you use for kneidlach, and for thinner ones you make different things. That's a Mishnah Berurah. Mishnah Berurah talks about it in siman taf-kuf-daled. Its usage is different. Its usage is only by keilim? Checked mate. It could be even by whatshacallit, even by food. Siman taf kuf daled. You want the Mareh Mekomos? I'm going to do it later, al ha-seder. The Mareh Mekomos is taf kuf daled. Oh, sif katan yud. No, no, no, no, no. Taf kuf daled. Where is— I wrote it down though. Just one second. Taf kuf daled. Taf— sif katan chaf. Sif katan chaf. We'll get to it in the seder, okay. So what makes shtei minim? So what makes shtei minim? What makes shtei minim? So either shtei minim could be different name, different taste, different usage, different tzurah. Katan and gadol doesn't make different tzurah. That we spoke, right? Because that's for a tzurah. But different tzurah can be shape, maybe. Different tzurah can mean different color. For example, the lollipop tastes the same. They're different colors. How do I know? Because R' Moshe told me that the children like the purple ones. Not going to be for a different taste. Maybe. I think those days they all tasted the same. Tasteless. The difference was the color. They all had the same not good taste, okay? Or it could be chaluk...

Texture. Soft, the chicken on top, the top is harder a little bit, and the bottom of the chicken is a little bit more. Okay. So we had a Mishnah Berurah, סעיף קטן תז. בשם לחיי אדם, the basar tli and basar mevushal is considered shtei minim, so it's all basar, but it's tli and mevushal. So we clarified, is it a different name? Today it's a different name. Tli and mevushal. But I don't know in the times of Mishnah Berurah. That's a very nice ha'arah. I don't know, what does the Mishnah Berurah mean by mevushal and tli? Okay. But it definitely has different texture. It definitely has different taste. Then we said he brings kol shekein different oifes, mini oifes. So first of all, what's the kol shekein, and what's the chiluk, the different oifes? We said a gevaldige pshat. Different oifes is the pshat maybe no matter what, even if it doesn't have different taste, even if it doesn't look different, maybe even— but it's l'maaseh different min. What if something is taka two different minim of the same oif in the oif family, for example turkey, which is also a nice shaila, because we don't know if turkey is a real bird. I don't know, what would you call a turkey? It's not so pashut it's a real bird. What else? You know, turkey's kosher with mesorah, with... So has it been story, but what? I don't know what a turkey is. Not a bird? The bird family for sure is that for sure. Anyway. Is a tarnagol a bird? Huh? Not the cat family. Maybe the inside of the cat family. Okay, but al kol panim, turkey, duck, and chicken, all right? Turkey, duck. I have a son that hates chicken, so when we had turkey Friday night, he's like, What is this? I'm like, Chicken's cousin. Chicken's cousin. I wanted extra for myself, so I didn't want to ask for chicken's cousin. Chicken's cousin. I hear. Good story. They all taste different. Huh? They definitely all taste different. They all taste different, right? Hagam, the truth is, if you take the top of the turkey, or the top of the chicken, it's very hard to tell the difference. You can do the tasters' test, the Pepsi-Cola taster test; you wouldn't know the difference. You want something we should try: take the top of a turkey and the top of a chicken. Yeah, the dark meat you can tell a little bit more, but the top meat it's not so poshut you can tell the difference. Point being, that could be the kol shekein oifes, or maybe taka because it's taka tastes different, taka is okay. Now, Mishnah Berurah brings down from a Pri Megadim, tapuchen chamutzim hamesukim, a little further up, you see? But he brings it as a safek. So this I want to be me'ayein into. First of all, what's the safek? I mean, why is it different than the case of sliyah mevushal? It's different. What's the chiluk between tapuchen chamutzim hamesukim? On top he brings a safek by tapuchen chamutzim hamesukim, and on the bottom he says it's definite by what? What does it mean, chamutzim? Spoiled? The word chamutz really means that it's a sour apple. It doesn't mean chamutz, spoiled; it means a sour apple. Okay, but it's a bad apple. I don't know. I don't think sour. I don't believe that that's what it means. Even if it ain't get bad, but that's what it is; it's a bad apple. It's just like the other meforshim. Mesukim doesn't mean fresh and not fresh. Mesukim means it's a different apple, and I'll explain to you even more. I always clarify in the Mishnah Berurah, does he mean taste, or maybe even it's a whole different type of apple? There's a yellow-green apple, or the point is shein mino. What's creating shein mino? Chamutzim is not, no. And if it's not totally chamutz, then it's only ... So let's take a look. What does he say, the halacha? Read it by chamutzim. V'tapuch chamutzim mesukim mistapek b'mikri min echad im lo. That's something else. Then he says, That's a different sugya. The Pri Megadim is a regular story, chamutzim... It's two different types of apples. Right here, tes-vav, tes-vav on top. Tes-vav, it's by the daas. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. The Pri Megadim is talking about two different types. But only if it's reuyin le'achol. Correct, but it's two different types. You're talking about a chamutzim apple and a mesukim apple. And the question is, why is the Pri Megadim mistapek? Why, lemaaseh, by tzelim uvushl it's not? You're talking about they're both reuyim, different taste. What's the difference? A meyudika ora. Why over here is it a safek? And I have another question. Would you compare chamutzim and mesukim to a, what do you call that, a cucumber and a pickle? You know what a cucumber is called in Hebrew? A melafefon. You know what a pickle is called? A melafefoncha. So it's the same thing, pickles. And you should know, a lot of times you have that. They put pickles together with cucumbers, especially on the liver plate, right? You want to take one from the other. What would you call that? Okay, half-sour pickles. Good. Okay, then you can clarify how much.

L'maaseh, would you compare the two? So the first shailah is, so shailah number one: would you compare what's the safek by tapuchim chamutzim and so on and so forth, and shailah number two, would it be compared to this? So I hold no. One has nothing to do with the other, and I'll explain to you what I mean. I think tapuchim chamutzim l'sukim does not have to be learned as that it happens to be flavor difference. It could be type difference as well. It could be type difference as well. It could be type difference as well. Or it could be just taste difference. If you learn mevushal and sli is type difference, then you can hear the safek of the Pri Megadim, because this is not even type difference. This is just it happens to taste different. So when it happens to taste different, maybe it has a different halachah. Mazal tov, mazal tov, mazal tov. Mazal tov, not that you... that's also mazal tov. What happened? You had a baby girl! Mazal tov, so, mazal tov. Yeshar koach, I was so happy, very happy for you. Okay, first tell the gabai, and the second start registering for school right away. Go ahead. Otherwise there's a little... I'm sorry, it's a little פה-חיים, no? So don't rely on that. Not in this town. Go ahead. Now, yeah, so it could be an apple chamutz and an apple masuk is not a type difference. It's a metzius difference. It just happens to be one is chamutz taste difference. So then, that would be a raya to mevushal, and tzli could be a whole type difference, not just a different taste. Okay. I want to point out that in America, we have pickles and cucumbers. Is that a type difference or just a taste difference? That's already a type difference, you know? That's already a type difference. And I want you to know, it's interesting that in Europe and in Eretz Yisrael, they both have the same name. They're both cucumber. One, a ugerke. Who knows what an ugerke is? An ugerke is a cucumber. So, a zisa ugerke, and a zoyer ugerke. A pickle is a melkane maises. In Europe, just instead of pickled cucumber, they just say a pickle. But they don't do that here. No, it could be, I don't know, it could be. And some that it's called pickles as opposed to cucumber. It's just instead of having the same pickled cucumber. Yeah, I don't know. He's a pickle. Is a pickle a cucumber, or this is a gantze naye cheftza? It's not just a salad cucumber. It's a whole different thing. That's what he types. And in Europe, maybe not. Pickled lady, hear what I want to hear. In America, it's two separate things. It's two separate things. That's being me'arev the shem, the chiluk shem, to chiluk type. I'm just saying, it's possible. By the turkey and chicken, Rabbi was saying. I don't know what they do to them over there. There it's type. Metzius is a different meat. Here it's b'shem a different meat. And could be it turns into a different meat. Okay. With this, rabosai, yeah, I have a problem. I have one more. I have a problem. Why? Because the Pri Megadim brings down... That you don't need both conditions. Oy oy, the Pri Megadim, heishlavram seif katan yud tes, that what makes two minim is oy b'ta'amim they're different, oy b'shmam. It doesn't need that; it should be different in all. And then he says a me'orer chiddush. He says it's talui in the shechiyanu, if you would make a shechiyanu for it. A me'orerdik machlokes, Pri Megadim, seif katan hei. If you make a shechiyanu, it's considered shtei minim. If you don't make a shechiyanu, it's considered min echad. Tami, on slivim vushl and sli, and by basar mevushal and basar tzli, would you make a chiluk in shechiyanu? If a person never ever tastes a basar tzli, would he say, I never tasted basar, so you have to make a shechiyanu? Siman reish chaf hei, seif katan yud daled in the Mishnah Berurah. Mishnah Berurah says not; חוזר to this Pri Megadim. So how can the Pri Megadim say by basar tzli and basar it's two shtei minim? For borei, I thought the Pri Megadim says talui in the shechiyanu, and by shechiyanu you don't make, so we'll leave it at this. It's the beginning of the shiur. We'll continue tomorrow, and then we'll do shechitah. We're going to move on to shechitah, okay, rabosai. So those that are bored with borei, all right, we're going to start moving on to shechitah, im yirtzeh Hashem, b'karov. Okay.