Shabbos 73b: Me’amer, Dash and Mefarek, Squeezing Fruit, and the Boundaries of Melachah

Transcript

He told us ... I mean, I would have to ... he told us ... I don't know, I don't know, I don't have any ... I don't have any. Okay. But this I know for sure: the ... gedolim. How could the Rambam say, how could he say that ein ... gedolim ...? The teretz is like the Mishnah Berurah wrote it over. Depends what. If you're talking about what ... ... is what, ... ... you're talking about peiros. Peiros is d'Rabbanan. You don't do ... You're not ... you don't make ... You put the peiros together, and then when you come to the house, you make your ... So wait, let's say ... the problem is only ... things that should ... ... When he thinks to do something. Yeah, like that, like that. ... How? That's my point. I'm going to get there right now. I mean, he said over ... I mean, you see that in the ... I'm saying, you see from the Rambam that even though one hand he says ein ... ela b'makom gidulan, he stops saying you can be chayav b'chatzer. The teretz is, this is ... And the Mishnah Berurah himself said, he quoted the Mishnah Berurah. Tell me the Mishnah Berurah. You know what the greatness of the Mishnah Berurah was? He knew the sugya so well. When you read the Mishnah Berurah, you think, really? It's coming from knowing the sugya. He knew the stira; he wrote it. Like a rishon. He was like a rishon. The svara was something mamash like a rishon. Okay, you have to listen carefully. Rambam, makom, tell me, it's batel bayis. Where did you see the word bayis? Toldah. Toldah means bayis. Toldah means peiros. Once you say peiros in bayis, then I hold it's not stira at all. That was not a stira, meaning it has to also be bemakom gedulah. If you want to make a toldah out of it, at least let it be bemakom gedulah. That's right. No, that's clear. That's how the English halacha is. Now you got it? Oh, the Rambam is coming to say, bemakom gedulah, it's an av; peiros, bayis is toldah. Comes along the Rama and says, bayis? At least let it be peiros and let it be ... and that's it. That's why he calls it a toldah. Remember I asked you a kasha: if it's basadeh, why is it called a toldah? Remember I asked you this for a kasha? The teretz is just peiros. That's the answer. That's the answer to the first kasha. That's the nekudah. According to this, if basadeh, I asked you why is it a toldah? What is the Rama talking about? The teretz is, the Rama is saying it has to be opposed to peiros, because the Rambam, peiros is not done bsadeh; it's only done bbayis. And I still hold it's only a toldah in a chayin. The Rama is saying bbayis there's not even a toldah. That's it. Rama is saying even bbayis is not even a toldah. So when is basadeh? Since peiros will be a toldah. Next step. You with me? The Nimukei Yosef says like this. I'm telling you, the Nimukei Yosef. There's a machlokes, the Nimukei Yosef and the ... Stop there. I need to... I'm saying I need... I'm teaching. I'm teaching. I'm trying to... Yeah, listen carefully. Ma amar? Zehu sheme'asef ha'omerim achar shenichum ha'kotzrim. What does ma amar mean? By the way, you'll be smart. The Meiri and the Shita LaRan, they both have a list of all the lamed-tes melachos, and they each will explain it a little bit different than the others. A lot of very nice... The Meiri. The Meiri is a beautiful... explains it. What did he say? Ma amar is what? After ketirah. Ha'ma'amer hu sheme'asef ha'omerim achar shenichum ha'kotzrim. Ha'omerim, achar. Omer is the wheat. Omer is called wheat. Wheat, wheat. Omer is wheat. ... No. Omer is a whole bundle. No. Ha'ma'amer is...

Omer is weak. That's all. I see, but the omer is weak. Omer is weak. That's what it is. ... V'hu hadin. V'hu hadin, gam kein ... achas, achas. If he puts them together, v'asah meihem omerim, and he makes bundles out of that. What does he want? Without tying them together. No, no. The first thing he says, you tied it together. The second thing is you didn't tie it, but you would ... until it became bundled. Without tying. You put one on top of the other, now you have an omer. That's the way you did it. V'hu hadin. That's the v'hu hadin. The first way you do it is you gather it yourself together, a whole bunch together, you tie it. Or what you did was, one, two, three, four, and now, hey, I got a bundle. Five, oh, now put another one. One, two, another bundle. Without necessarily having to be clustered together. Maybe shitas ha-Miri. Shitas ha-Miri is you don't necessarily need tying. If you take the ... the Ran does not bring down only the first case from the Meiri. Says the Ran, ayin gimmel. What's the case? Says the Ran. Says the Ran, here. Mechakeh, mechaber, here. No, right here, no? Mamer. Shehu tzover b'makom echad, v'koshran. V'koshran. Now tell me, shitas haRambam. Come, ... shitas haRambam, no? Tell me, do you have to tie it according to the Rambam? Tell me shitas haRambam. Rambam? Read me Rambam. Read the Rambam by me'amer. This is the Rambam. Read me a few Rambams. Read what you can find in the Rambam. Read. I'm sure. Come, me'amer, show me what you have in the Rambam. Let's see what you got. ... Start from the beginning of me'amer. Start all the way from the beginning of me'amer. What is me'amer? Okay, continue. ... Let's put there. Go ahead. Let's put there. ... Go ahead. ... Okay, forget about the shiur. Now get next to the next halacha. ... Okay. ... Now come this. Okay, ... Now we need Chaf aleph. We need some halachos by Chaf aleph, maybe. Why do I have in my memory? Why didn't you bring it with me? I'll tell you, Cheskus says always, the shita of the Rambam is that you need kosher. You have to tie it together. I took it. That's in my car. I brought it back. I brought the bag back full of from yeshiva. Maybe you want to get the bag? Okay. Okay. If you learn, if you learn the Rambam's shita is that you davka need kosher, okay? Davka need kosher, yeah? Oh, that's my kasha. That's what I wanted to ask. That's my question. So how can we keep with the... Yeah, no, because... What did you say? What are you going to try? You have a case of tying it together. He has it. Yeah. Second case. Also, and he put a string through. But what about the first case, though? The first case is... That's not a kasha. The av melacha is l'tisha. That's by tefillah. By teir is there's no kishur.

Get tied together. What do you want? There's two dinim. If you're talking about the av melacha, you're right. The av melacha is b'kishur. Mash'ein kein, mash'ein kein, the toldah, huh? So, I'm telling you, it's very simple. I don't have the Az Yashir in front of me, but I know he proves shitas haRambam always is that the ma'amer has to be with the chevel, with string. So I'm saying, what do you do with peiros? You tie peiros like that way. It has to be peiros, not the av melacha. The toldah, the av melacha is teruah, kishur. Mash'ein kein, the toldah is teruah. So what's the pshat? What's the argument? Yes. What? ... whatever, you were busy with omer. ... It says, ... asher asu guf echad chayav mishum me'amer. Right. Kavaleh. We just did it. You say also. ... after, before that? No. I'll tell you the truth, I'm going to get it from the car. I want to see. He hands it right off. I don't remember what it is. I remember seeing it once. And he says clearly that he says a kosher has to be al yedei chevel. I don't know where he gets it from. Al kol panim, al kol panim, it's not a kasha בכלל. If this whole thing is not a kasha, why? You're right. The etzem hamelacha by tefuah is kosher; you have to tie it together. But shekein, the keldo, which is by peiros, you don't tie it together. Who's going to tie it together? As long as I'm mitdabek, it's good enough. Huh? No, the Meiri says that there's two ways how to be chayav for ma'amer: either I put it together with a band, with tying it, me'asef and I tie it, or I'm mitzaber. Means I put one on top of the other and I don't tie it. I don't necessarily have to tie it. It gets put together by itself. The shita, the Rambam says only the first one, that you have to me'asef and to tie it together. I want to say, what's the hesber of the machlokes? What are they arguing? What's the hesber of the machlokes that it has to be דווקא בגידולי קרקע or not בגידולי קרקע? What's the hesber in the Gemara? Abaye's svara says it can be what? שלא בגידולי קרקע, and he says it has to be דווקא only בגידולי קרקע, right? The second machlokes we have is what? Is it shayach with what? The ikar is with the peiros, right? With the shibalim, right? And the tevuos with the peiros. Why should it be there? Why should it be an av melacha also? Why? According to the shita of the Rambam, anything which is doimeh, right, is always an av melacha. Anything which is doimeh, inyan, why is it not a toladah? Why not? Why should this be a toldah? I'm trying to explain like this. I see in front of me a few machlokes. I see a machlokes like this: A, I see a machlokes if it's דווקא בגידולי קרקע. A. I also see a machlokes what if the ikar is peiros or shibalim. You see the Rambam is mechalek. The Rambam says shibalim will be the av melacha, but shekein peiros, that will be already a toldah. Next. Why? Why according to the Rambam, I'm always learning anything me'inyan; me'inyan becomes an av. B, what's the chiluk between Abaye and Rava? Mishnah Berurah says because darka of a peired is tochbayis. What are they arguing? What's the hesber of the machlokes? And on top of all this, I want to put you in another machlokes. Tell me the Tosafos. Tell me the Tosafos. The Tosafos says, what happens if the maamer, and then it became undone? The wind or an animal or a child or a bachur from the yeshiva came and undid it, right? ... It was nice, set up beautiful, and somebody came and ruined it. I don't want to say that somebody, okay? He came and he untied it and he spread it all over the place, and then he maamer again. ... Comes the Tosafos and says, Ein maamer achar maamer. ... This lama by bishul, ein bishul achar bishul, because after it's מבושל, it's כבר מבושל, right? Mashenkin over here, you undid it. I mean, the maamer is ממש maamer. What's the difference? Tosafos, Tosafos. Here? No. No, there it is.

Regular, regular imur in the field. In yesh ma'amer achar ma'amer. Let me share. Taisvis, tell me Taisvis. I'll tell you when we get into it. I just want to show you here. There. V'osatan omer. The shiur ha'ma'amer hu kegon, ... Okay. Aval אי קסה, אם כן נתפזרו לו פירות בחצירו, או בשדה, וליקטן, יתחייב משום מעמר. What happens if the peiros became מפוזר, and then he redid it? Okay, okay, okay. Teshuva: אין מעמר אלא בשעת ליקיטה מן הקרקע, שזהו תחילת ליקיטתו. אבל פירות שנלקטו כבר ועכשיו נתפזרו, אין זה מעמר. Ram has a different case. Ram has it smashing together. Ram never learned ... Ram never learned the ... בכלל חיוב. Taisvis is learning ... so then he has a problem with פזרו. Yeah, you know what's going on here. The Rama learns the problem is ... משעת האיסוף. What are you chayav for? You're only chayav for the pressing later. Taisvis says, why aren't you takkeh chayav for the actual ma'aseh, and ma'aseh אחר מעשה, and imur אחר imur. What? No. The pressing maybe he'll hold you're chayav maybe, because different type of melachah, maybe. What's the ... where do you get this? Teshuva, you hear? Teshuva! What? Teshuva! Teshuva, says the Tosfos Rid, you hear? Any more? Any more? Achar... hear that? Any more, achar yi'ush. What's the pshat? Where does the Tosfos Rid come to mechadesh any more achar yi'ush? Where does it come from, bichlal? Any bishacha, bishu muvan, im ze kvara mevushal, bigmar, it's already cooked. Soup is cooked. Soup. ... soup ... And then ... And grade b'mayim, זה יכול להיות אסור, אבל ... What are the ...? What are the ...? ... the one that's still live. ... the one that's still live. ... Okay, listen carefully. Any more achar yi'ush. But you have to understand this sugya of melachah ... Again, problem number one: I want to know, what's the machlokes? ... Why should it only be ...? Why? What's the machlokes? B'machlokes, I only ... is it דווקא ...? ... What's the machlokes? You shouldn't tell me what the machlokes is. Second question. I want to... He says it. The Tosfos Rid says it. The Tosfos Rid, he says it. Because it's only supposed to be a klisha. So don't tell me. That's what I'm using the Tosfos Rid. I want to care. B, I want to know why by, why after we learned the whole Rambam and the Ra'avad and the Marach and everything, it comes out that the main melachos by wheat, by peiros, we're going to say it's a patur. Explain this. Anything that's melachah, you don't have to point to the Rambam and melachah. What happened? Yeah? B, yeah? Why do you point to the Rambam as a toladah? Bayis, not bayis, what's the difference? Why? Where is the bayis not bayis, peiros? C, C, what was the third nekudah that we said was the sechirah? The patur, you don't have the patur. What's the machlokes? The teretz of the patur. I don't know if you heard the melachos. Is it avodas hakarka, avodas hasadeh, which is asur, or it's tikun hapeiri? Oh, what about tikun hapeiri?

In the Pri, you put it together, a .... If you learn a .... Is the pshat, is the pshat, it's avodas hasadeh, ma'amar is issur, imur shel avodas hasadeh, mitzad avodas hasadeh zeh is asur, or hapshat hu, achshav tikanti, hayah mefuzar, now asafti. I put it together. Now it's metukan. That's really the machlokes. If you learn that it's a tikkun because it's now together, so why does it need דווקא to be ...? That's the machlokes, .... What do you mean, ...? If you're going to know this, by the way, in every melachah of Shabbos, all the Rishonim and Acharonim, all the ... are saying tzad. What's ...? And what do you mean, what's ... by borer? What's the issur of borer? Tikkun hapri. Now if it doesn't have the psoles, the pri is metukan. It has to do with meleches machsheves, but that's... And if you want to know where I got this thing about borer, that's the birur, the most famous birur halachah in Hilchos Borer, which ... do it, a big birur, a whole page in birur halachah. He brings from the Yeshuos Yaakov that the halachah of taking out the psoles is tikkun hapri. You fix the pri. You fix the cheftza because it doesn't have the psoles. Why does the Yeshuos Yaakov say this? Because otherwise you have a very big problem. What's the problem? It's a melachah she'ein tzrichah לגופה. Every time I take away the psoles, I don't need the psoles; you read it. If the Yeshuos Yaakov, if it's a birur halachah, it's the most famous birur halachah in Hilchos Borer. You cannot learn borer without—anybody who's going to learn borer, the first thing you should ask him, no, ask him, tell me, why is the melachah she'ein tzrichah לגופה? If he doesn't know the answer, I promise you he never learned borer. I promise you he never did. You can know these lines; he never learned it. Because if you, I don't mean, could be he learned the halacha, you know, the Mishnah Berurah inside. But if you learned your sugya, this is it. This is the question on the sugya. It's a halacha ... You don't need the pesuk. ... Anyway, you need the melacha. I do it. ... Lachazman is life, something else. But if you ... Pesach is not ... tikun of the pri. You don't look at the ... you look at the pri. You look at the ... I cannot להבין, we come to ... It's like you weren't many years here. How many years are you here? No, but how many years are you learning here? You ... mamash, you told me you said machshir ... It's unbelievable what you said. I'm very impressed. Tikun of the lamdan. Nobody talks like a lamdan. I mean, ... That's it. It's a tikun haperi. Did you fix now a pri? Yes. It's mutar on Shabbos. No, it's not. It's mutar on Shabbos. It's mutar on Shabbos, because that tikun hapri is mutar. Tikun of ... good from bad is mutar, no? Bad from good is ... because ... Okay, okay, this is ... You want to know ... that's ... Okay, now, the same shaila is here too. Can we look at it, avodas hakarka, meaning, ... or no, ... right? I fixed, I put everything together. ... You get a maamar after maamar after maamar. Once you put there, I fixed it again. But if it's avodas hakarka... Because you lost image, that's what the Torah is saying. The derech is not to do it again; it's not avodas hakarka. And that's what the Rambam holds, everything fits. What's the main, the shoresh machlokes? Shoresh machlokes is: do we look at avodas hakarka, or do we look at tikkun of ma sheh? If it's avodas hakarka, that's why it has to be b'makom gidulo; it has to be b'makom gidulo. And that's why you need kishur, according to the Rambam, you must tie it, because that's the avodas hakarka, that's the way it's done. If it's just l'saken, so it's metukan as long as it's together, as long as it's mitztavur, it's metukan. That's how they did it. You're mekasher it. The normal way is put them together and tie it up, so that's the avodas hakarka, that's the way it's done. For anything which is called avodas hakarka is the av melacha. I, tikanta kimo avodas hakarka? No, lo. It's only melacha. The av melacha is avodas hakarka, imur. The tolda is tikkun haperi, the tikkun that you fix it now, it's sabur. Only davka, only the tolda. That's why he says only.

Because it's not the sibbulim of the karka. Ma'amer is done by shibolim. Ma'amer is done b'karka. Ma'amer is not done bayit. That's a telda. That's the telda of ma'amer. According to Rambam, right? It's a telda, and it's karka. That's why it's lulav karka. That's how you pass lulav karka. And that's why the chaser I'm chayav for was tolados peiros. That's something else. That's peikuach, which is the telda of ma'amer. Yeah, don't. That's the case in ... That's clearly ... There's no such thing. Because if I did it that way, that's not av melachah karka. It's not for the karka now that you're doing it. That's not how you do your ... You'd rather want to make things this way, so that's your own personal thing. I know. I explained to you, chayav mishum ma'amer has to mean, it has to, because it's clearly before. It's a telda. It has to. In other words, how I ... I asked you for a question. The lashon is mashma it's an av, but before this, telda. You can't argue with what he said. He says clearly this case is telda. Zeh v'sa ... says it clearly. So I said chayav mishum, meaning he goes under the category of ma'amer. Lafuke it's only ... That's what he means. Lafuke it's not a gzeirah. So you need to speak ... one thing. No, one thing. One thing. No, but all part of the thing. It has to be done the way it's done, the karka. Anything else which is just like maamar becomes toldah right away. Because even though it has the same thing, you metaken the ... melachah was. Melachos not to work the field. You know what maamar is? Don't work on the field. You know, if someone asks you, what's the issur maamar? Not to work on the field. Huh? He says clearly it's a toldah. Huh? I know that's what he means. Even when he says a toldah, he will always say ... When he says toldah, he says the name. He says av melachah also. Don't ... You know what I'm saying? I know that, but it doesn't have to be דווקא av melachah, especially when he clearly tells you it's a toldah. Okay, but this I want to understand one more meiri and then we'll go home. Very good, beautiful. That's why the first one the Rambam said, by melachah, it's chayav, because ... I have full ... I have full. Now I'm full. Here. ... Why is it not a toldah? It's not a ... at least by ... at least that. If you want to say it's ... I'm not ... You go back and years later you'll see, and I'm teaching you the truth. I'm not making crazy. With this I can explain one more meiri. ... Meiri says ... Tambam, right? Tambam. ... right? Huh? ... Please, because it's becoming squeezable. Okay, because by dveikus, he says, by dveikus, ... together, squeeze it together. ... says no. Ela b'gidulei karka, you see? But the Meiri's shita is that it's even by what? Even by food, right? Because he held you don't need ... because he held it was tikun peri, no? He holds the whole gidulei karka. That's the whole — that's what I'm telling you. Yeah, exactly. He holds the whole thing is karka. That's the Meiri, and that's what I wanted to show you, the list in the Meiri. Says the Meiri, when you're chayav, says Meiri number: Yesh mefarshim shekol tzarich b'imur shebo chayav, afilu b'chatzeiro. Why do you need — where does mechaven come from? Yeah? V'yesh mefarshim shekol tzarich kegon mechaven b'imur shebo.

Yeah? I always ask this famous kasha: Why does he need mechaven over here? Even if you're not mechaven, we hold psik reisha. Even if you're not mechaven, you're chayav. Why does he say you need kavana? Guys, you with me? Don't lose me. The last second, nu? What happened? You see, like the Bavli, that's what it is. Because the Rambam holds not like that, because the Rambam paskens like who? Like Abaye. But paskens you're chayav. Why? This is the meiri's shita. The meiri holds you don't need daas, you need sheirah. Why do we explain the meiri doesn't need sheirah? Because it's not a ... it's just that you put it all together, you misaken, so he holds you by melachas that way. And that's why you hold you need kavana. Let's see if you can figure this one out. This meiri and this ... two meiris. No, no, no. Same tikun. Since ikar tikun, since ikar tikun, right, therefore you don't need, even by ... you don't need ... anything which is tikun. And that's why you need mechaven. Why do you need mechaven? Let's see if you can say this. Say it good, say it good. If the taiches that I'm doing melachas hasadah, okay, but to say that what happens, I did the melacha and we pasken melacha she'ein tzricha לגופה is chayav by a psik reisha. Hashem came with the pshat is al tikun. When we talk about tikun ... Right. Start from ... Again, say again. The Mishnah says, Shalom aleichem, tzaddik. What is your name? The Mishnah. Today we're going to learn the melachah of dosh, right? In every melachah, we spoke how to understand the melachah, right? In this lamed-tes melachos, we did choresh, we did zoreh, we did merakeh, we did zoreh, choter, mamer. Now we're going to do dosh. Come, sit down, we're doing dosh. What is dosh? Now, the actual melachah of dosh was that after they bundled the wheat, they would unbundle it, and then they would step on it with a shoe that had spikes in order to separate the wheat from the shaft. Shaft. We're doing ayin gimmel. We're doing ayin gimmel, but we're just going to do one line of the Mishnah, one Mishnah. Here, to just actually know what the etzem melachah—what is the etzem melachah? The kernels from the shaft, the stem, right? How'd they do it? A shoe, with a very classy shoe. You know, today they would have given it a name, Nike or Spiky, you get what I mean? Anyways, b'kitzur, that's how they would chop on it and separate the wheat from the shaft. Now, there's another melachah that's nogea to us. You see, to us, dosh is not really so nogea, because I don't know anybody who walks around with that shoe trying to stamp on wheat to try to separate it from shibolim on Shabbos. Good. But l'maaseh, we're— We're not cliffhangers and we don't do all this, but there is a part of Darsh which is very נוגע למעשה. You know what it is? Sochet. When a person takes an orange, he squeezes the orange. From the orange comes juice. We will see that there's a big machlokes rishonim what that issur is on Shabbos. Exactly. So let's take a look at the first Mishnah in the 12th perek, Chavit shenishbera. You see it? Okay. It says like this: אין סוחטין את הפירות. The third line. You have it? Kuf mem gimel. We're going back to ayin gimmel. I just want to show you a Rashi shita like this. You can go back to ayin gimmel and we can see it clear inside. Kuf mem gimmel amud bet. אין סוחטין את הפירות להוציא מהן משקין. You're not allowed to squeeze peiros to take out mashkin, take out its juices. Kuf mem gimel amud bet, in the Mishnah. Chavit, you have chavit? Two lines down, a new halacha. אין סוחטין את הפירות. Halacha lemaaseh here, you are not supposed to be sochet peiros, להוציא מהן משקין.

Bi'mehe machkin. We don't squeeze fruit on Shabbat to take out its juices. V'im yatzu me'atzman, and if they come out by itself, what happens? I didn't squeeze it; it happened by itself. Still, still asurim. Rashi will soon see. Rabbi Yehuda אומר, Rabbi Yehuda makes a difference. Im le'ochlim, if he squeezed it out for eating purposes, hayotzei mehem mutar. If I put a squeezed lemon into a salad, then it's okay, because I'm doing it for food. Im le'mashkin, if I did it for juices, I want to make my own Snapple. I decided I'm going to competition with Snapple. If I do it le'mashkin, what happens? Hayotzei mehem asur. Simple Mishnah. Why? Says Rashi, אין סוחטין את הפירות להוציא מהן מפרק. So that's the translation of the word mefarek. Okay, now keep this in mind, because we're going to go learn now in ayin gimmel what mefarek is. That's why I gave you this introduction. Says Rashi, mefarek is to squeeze the juices from the orange, and what is it? Le'hava. Some of the beis to fix the word havah, no? What's the beis? Le'hava. Dehu, I'm sorry, dehu. Dehu תולדה דמפרק. I'm sorry, it's a toldah of dishah, which means this is what mefarek, which is a toldah of dash. Toldah, not dash itself, because dash is the shoe crushing the—what's it called?—crushing the wheat. This is called what? A toldah. This, taking the juice, it is called what? A toldah of dash. Rashi is clear. Rashi says what's wrong with mefarek. It's a mefarek is the problem, d'havlei mefarek toldah d'dash. Okay. Now everybody go back to Ayin Gimel, all right? We have pitas peiris, which is mefarek, which is a toldah of dash. Now let's go back to our delicious Ayin Gimel. Ah, Ayin Gimel, our wonderful Gemara. Okay, ha-dash, you have it? Dash. What about dash? Says the Gemara, what is dash? Tana ha-dash, v'hamenafetz. V'hamenafetz. What are these? Says the Gemara, kulan melachah achas hein. Yes, we will. Leti Rashi. Says Rashi, menafetz, pishtan bi-givolim. Menafetz means he takes—now you take out pishtan from givolim, you pop it out like, give it a pop. The pishtan—you ever see like a, you know, yikrei, you never see it. It's menafetz. Let's call menafetz. Pishtan mi-gvolim. The pishtan, the flax from its, from its, I guess, pocket, from its shell, from its shell, right? You give it a pop like that. Here, let me show you, like this. And it comes out. Okay. That's menafetz, you hear? That's called menafetz. That's the translation. Nails. What are you talking about? What's nails? Oh, wow. Silk comes from worms. Silk, silk. Flax. Not that you close the maid on. Now, so, Baruch Hashem, guys are hungry. What'd I tell you? Obviously they're hungry. Oh, you guys want to eat? Okay, listen here, listen. Now, listen good. You're listening? You're listening? Listen already. Now, that's min hafet. What's min hafet? What's min hafet? Semer geffen. That's cotton. Semer geffen. Cotton. The cashius, semer geffen. Semer geffen is cotton, sure. There's semer, semer which comes from animals, and there's semer geffen which comes from vines, which is cotton. Very good. Rashi is mefaresh. We didn't get to mefaresh yet. See, all I'm showing you so far is dosh. Two things are included in dosh. Now, ... is toldos dosh. We didn't say mefaresh yet. We just said dosh. We have dosh, menapeh, and menapeh. Says, what's Rashi menapeh? Semer geffen ... k'derech ha'umin, v'tsemer geffen k'dulei karka, grows from the ground. We shall soon see that only gidulei karka has the issur of dosh. There's no dosh with something which is not gidulei karka. Very important. Very important to know this klal, okay? L'hachi kari nifut dilei toldah d'dosh. That's why it's called, according to Rashi, a toldah of dosh.

Shimifarek, there you go. You got the word Rashi. Shimifarek garinin mimenu, v'lo kari lei toladas menapeh shesever. Mashenkein, it's not menapeh shesever. Now what's menapeh shesever? When you have a wool and you comb it out, that's called menapeh, right? Menapeh. You know what menapeh is? You have wool and you want to—wool is bundled up, it's wool. If you combed it, it would be who knows how long, very long. So you comb it out. That's called menapeh. Says Rashi, the menapeh is not menapeh shesever, regular sever. It's different menapeh. This is menapeh shesever, one. Geffen, and it's a toldah of dash, and it's nothing to do with the other menapeh, okay? You got the Rashi again. Says Rashi, menapeh and menapeh. One is by pishtan and the other one is by temer, geffen. So he says how they do it, b'keshet, with like a bow, with an arrow, with a machine, with an instrument, k'derech holchim, like the professionals do. Temer, geffen, k'derech karka, temer, geffen is what? You do it karka, throws from the ground. V'achi kari nifutei lei toldah d'dash. That's why it's called toldah of dash. Shimifarek garinin mimenu, because you're taking away the garin, the seed from the—v'lo kari lei toldah of menapeh shesever. Why? Because it has nothing to do with menapeh shesever. Why it's not a— that's gonna be the question. Now, so my question to you is like this. My question to you is like this: if you take a look at Tosafos, Tosafos learns that the same case that Rashi brings is not going to be mifarek toldah d'dash, but it has to do with memachek. Does everybody look at the Tosafos? Mishum memachek. You have it? Says like this: Mefarek, you have it? פירוש Rashi, you have the Tosfos? פירוש Rashi, d'ha vetolda d'dash. Rashi said mefarek is what? Tolda d'dash. It's kasher l'Rabbeinu Tam. Says Rabbeinu Tam, it's not so. You see, Baruch, look inside. It's kasher l'Rabbeinu Tam. To Rabbeinu Tam, it's no good. Why? The Mishloi hamatzlia אמר, in the end of— okay, Shili, Shili matzlia we say, chayav chatas mishum mefarek. If someone milks a cow on Shabbos, are you allowed to milk a cow on Shabbos? Thirsty, thirsty. Allowed to do it? Still not allowed, even though you're thirsty, right? Maybe you're thirsty, allowed. What's the answer? Just because I'm thirsty doesn't mean I'm allowed, right? And what issur is it? It's the issur of mefarek. Are you allowed to milk a cow? V'ha vetolda d'dash. Now if you're going to come and say that what? That's a tolda d'dash. You squeeze the blood out of a chilazon. Chilazon is that delicious fish that we make the snail. Snail, that's it. The busy little snail. It loves snails. Who? No, that's what I'm telling you. Achailei, if you milk a cow on Shabbos, what issur is it? Says the Gemara, mefarek. And on the other hand, the Gemara says there's no mefarek. So that's life. You do with that. Now listen carefully here. So what do you have? What do you have? You listening? Good, you hear. So what does it say? And on the other hand, you can't make mefarek by what? Dash, by animals. It has to be davka derech karka. Rashi comes and says, the word mefarek is a toldah of dash. Yeah? Says Tosfos, uh-uh-uh, you made a big mistake. It cannot be a toldah of dash. Why can't it be a toldah of dash? Because dash only by things that grow from the ground. Right? Can I crush this guy's head and be chayav for mishum mefarek? Well, some people, yes, because their head is למעשה like a karka. But by most people, it's not called gidulei karka, and therefore, what's the halacha? You're patur. You're not. You're not. If I crush this guy's head, will I be chayav mishum mefarek? No. I'm not chayav. No. Why am I not chayav? Even though some people's heads are like gidulei karka, but most people are not. Most people are not gidulei karka. Let's say, there you go. Most people are not gidulei karka. What happens? But don't we say that ... gidulei karka? But again, certain things, not ... certain. Yeah, certain, not. Here we see clearly, the chilazon, if I squeeze the blood out of the chilazon, what happens? It's not called dash.

Why is it called dust? It's not ... it grew from the ground. Gemara. ... says in Gemara. ... Why by the ...? No, dust. ... It's a dust. One minute. So the question is, so how can it be what? ... How can it be, says Tosafos, that there's ... of an animal, dust? Why? Because Gemara is mefaresh, and Rashi says it's dust, and says, ... Leave him alone. Leave him alone, huh? He's asking ... because you see clearly by ... Tosafos says that maybe ... different, that an animal is different because an animal eats from the ground and fish don't eat from the ground. So how can it be dust by ...? That's his kashya. ... Then the ... chayev mishum memachek. Rashi, you made up your story. Don't make up stories. Unbelievable Tosafos, huh? Comes along the ... and he says, guess what? The word mefarek doesn't mean dash. You know what mefarek is? Mefarek is memachek. You're crumbling. You're memachek. You're smoothing. You're smoothing out. You're crumbling up a bit lump. Memachek. Ah, memachek is one of the melachos. It's a toldah of memachek. Well, actually, memachek is one of the ... melachos. It's after ... Shoicheid, shoicheid, ma'abed. Abed is a macher, after ma'abed, no? Hame'abed et oro v'hami machko. First big line, no? The first big line in the Mishnah. Hame'abed et oro u'memachkehu. Memachkehu, no? Come on, right after ma'abed. This one here. Come on, right here. This is it, no? Memachkehu. Memachkehu, you're cumbling, you're fooling, you're making something loose. Ah. You're making just... Okay, let's see. Repeichav samninan? No, no, Tosfos explained how it is. No, he does not. Tosfos explained how it's called memachek. Where is it? Although at the end, where is it? Ah, the mefarek. I'm sorry, because you chayav mefarek if that's that, right? The mefarek, he makes it soft because it was hard. Boom, boom. Mefarek is toldah of memachek. Yeah, you know what's going on over here? So we have a machlokes, Rashi and Tosfos. Rashi learns, then mefarek. So now it's like this. I call Neri's brother till I know his name, I'll call him Neri's brother. Meantime he's still Neri's brother. Neri's brother, okay? N.B., Neri's brother. Tell me something. If I ask you what does the word mefarek mean, what are you going to answer me? You have no idea? Well, that's an honest answer. You should know a lot of poskim, a lot of poskim answer the same thing. You should know there's a tremendous maalah. At least it's an honest answer. Some people make up the answer. This is the right answer. He doesn't know. It's the real answer. You know that Reb Simcha Zissel Ziv, Brisker dying, okay? He was picked. You know why Reb Chaim picked to be the dayan in Brisk? Because what he just answered: I don't know. You don't know? You made a mistake? No problem. You're the dayan. That's the type of dayan I like. A dayan who can admit that he made a mistake is what I need in Brisk. If a lot of dayanim, they make a mistake, they make it up on the spot. So there he goes. You're the new Brisker dayan, all right? He's now hereby ordained you Brisker dayan, okay? You ready? Now listen carefully. What does the Gemara say? Mefarek. It says, Rashi, what's mefarek? Mefarek is a toldah of dosh, and he sticks it into pitas peiros. Comes along Tosafos and says, What's dosh? What does dosh have to do with anything? What is this? It can't be dosh, because dosh is what? Only by gidulei karka, and we know that chayavim chayavim on mefarek. Says Tosafos, therefore what is it? It's got to be a toldah of... What is mefarek? A toldah of memachek. Haboisai, what's the machlokes? What are the arguments? What's the yesod of the machlokes? Obviously.

They're arguing what the farag is, right? But the truth is, they're even arguing more. They're arguing in what the yesod of dash is. See, once you understand what dash is, you can come and say why Rashi said what he said, and why Tosafos said what he said. And now we're going to try to explain a little dash and a little bit. Let's take a look at the Rashi. Okay, you have it? I don't understand how it's called a mechayev. I don't understand. Who? How would we... You know, let me give you a little— I'll tell you what, I'll give you a little introduction, then you tell me. Is dash, is dash the issur, you ready, menachem, to take the psolet away from the ochel? Or is dash to take the ochel away from the psolet? By borer, by borer, by borer, psolet mitoch ochel is the issur, and ochel mitoch psolet is mutar. By dash, maybe it's the opposite. Maybe the problem is psolet mitoch ochel is the issur. No. Or the issur could be psolet mitoch ochel. By borer it's a different— By borer, this is two different, but the question is the same yesod: is the problem to chop the ochel away from the psolet, or the problem is to chop the psolet away from the ochel? Ah, yeah, it's psolet. I'm porek psolet. You see, the Rachah is clearly it's the psolet from the ochel, because they had to make wheat. They had to make wheat in order to make dye, because in every ink, in every dye, they had wheat. Wheat to make it beautiful and the best. Okay, where is it? Okay, read it for them. Go ahead. Hamechuberes b'ochel. I have a rach. I have a regular rach in my house. I have to get—you can read the words. Hadosh, okay, go ahead. No. Hamefarek, go ahead. Once, Menachem, you read a little. Menachem, go. It's on, it's on ayin daled. Kemo borer, right? Like, like borer, right. Here it's separate from a taroves, but the question is, what is the problem? Is it the ochel from the psoles? Is it the ochel away from the psoles, or the psoles away from the ochel? It's borer by a taroves; it's a different nekudah. Here it's not a taroves. So what? I said because that's a taruv, that's a taroves. What do you mean, egg? What do you mean egg from the psoles? Klipas never asser because derech achilah. You see, that's why. You can't compare anything to borer. I'm just trying to say this nekudah: is the problem the psoles chopping it off the ochel, or the ochel chopping it off the psoles? If you take it with the Rashash, clearly then what's the problem? Hadosh, hamefarek, ha—you getting interesting, huh? Hapsoles hamechuberes b'ochel. You see? U'mechinankam li'breirah, oi kivra, oi barkada. Now, see, it appears that for the next step, it's psoles from ochel, and then the next step, again psoles from ochel, you see? He's learning it's like a hakdamah. First I take one time the psoles from the ochel, then from the ochel I take again the psoles from the ochel, and then again, once it's real, I make meraked. Take the clothes from the other. Unbelievable rach, no? It's unbelievable rach. What? It's unbelievable rach, no? I have to bring it. I have the rach at home as a separate. There's no difference. It's just different steps of the game. How's the opposite? Right, so which is the yetzer, the bad from the good? Here too, it's the bad from the good, this stuff. That's what I'm showing you. That's what I'm showing you. Read the rach. No, no, no. The rach is learning, Baruch. Baruch makes me feel good that I'm Rav Chaim then. You can be like you and me, I can feel Chaim. I can talk myself into Chaim. Baruch is mamish, it's a piece of gold in...

Unbelievable chesed, I'm dealing with Tosfos. You know what Tosfos is? Tosfos is like boirer and like merakeid, it's all the same thing. What is merakeid? Merakeid means you take—yeah, I know—take the bad away from the good. That's right. So the next step. So it's one step after. The first step is I take the psoles away from the ochel, then from the ochel I take the psoles away from the ochel, and then from the ochel, which is so good, I take the— the next level, the best from the best, and I— the not best from the best I put away. It's unbelievable rach. It's unbelievable. You hear? Menachem, tell, read it again. Read, you see the way he says this? Hachdamah, the preparation. Why else? Some think there's a rach to remember. This is an unbelievable rach. I shortly said, unbelievable, unbelievable. ... I'm gonna talk about that. We'll repeat that. ... Rishonim to talk about that. That's the end of this shiur. We're not holding there yet. Okay, now, let Rashi. You ready? I'm gonna prove to you that Rashi and Tosfos are cholek on this she'eilah: is mefarek, is I took the— I'm sorry, mefarek is I took the ochel from the psoles or the psoles from the ochel? We'll soon see. Let's take a look at the Gemara on top here. The Gemara said before that if someone took a clump of earth—remember the Gemara, a clump of earth—and he threw it. He threw it against the tree, threw it against the tree. The Gemara is gavshushin. Amar Rav Sheshes, you have it? No, it's crushing. It's separating the wheat from the chaff. Now, what exactly is the if? The fact that the shaft went away from the wheat or the wheat went away from the shaft? Is the cup half empty or half full? ... What's the shaila? He would ask, he would ask like this: Is the person in the shoe or is the shoe on the person? That was the type of chakirah. ... What's the—what is the shoe? He would ask, he would ask like this: Is the person in the shoe or is the shoe on the person? That was—that's the Rav Chaim. Rav Chaim and Rabbi ... chakiros were both true. Both. I mean, he took a fact and he looked at two sides of it, but they were both true. There was no difference between the two of them. That's what they say. Okay, now listen carefully. ... I took a clump of earth. I took somebody's head, yeah? I took a piece of this guy's head, a clump of earth, and I threw it here, and I threw it against the tree. All right? I threw it against the tree. You like it. Don't say this in the mirror, please. When you come there, don't say over this chiddush, okay? Now listen carefully. If you want, say it in Yiddish; don't say it in English. Now listen carefully, yeah? Listen good. You listening? He took a gush, he took a piece of clump of earth, and he threw it against what? He threw it against the tree. Don't bother. He's sleeping. It's a good shiur for him. He can sleep well. Very important shiur. Now listen carefully. Now listen. Yeah. Why are you chayav for? He says, Achas mishum... Yeah. Mi peshut... Once, where are we holding over here? Amar Rav Sheishes, eimanot, eimanot, eimanot. Okay, says the Gemara like this. Here it is. Says the Gemara, Achas mishum toylish, v'achas mishum mefarek, right? He took a thing of earth and he threw it. He's chayav for toylish, and he's chayav for mefarek. Where's the mefarek over here? Look at toylish, see? Achas mishum mefarek. Eini, k'mo shemefaresh Rashi. Rashi says, what's the mefarek? Shemefarek ha'ilan mimasa'o min hapeiros shealav. What is mefarek? That he took away, he unloaded the tree from its peiros. Is peiros ochlin or... right, it's good, but he unloaded it, he unloaded it. Ela k'mo shepeirush Reb Shmuel, sheyesh al hatzmorim klipa, but rather, what's the real pshat of the mefarek? And what? On the tzmorim there's a klipa. Elyonah, top thing. U'keshehu makeh b'tmarim, mefarek es haklipa min hatmarim.

What? ... With the stew. No, this isn't ... Tam. ... This is ... No, no, no, no. This is ... shmo. ... shmo learns pshat in mefarek dash. He's not arguing on this. ... argues on this. The yesod of the machloikes is based on this nekudah. What do I mean by this nekudah? Rashi learned—what was the case of mefarek? Tell me what Rashi learned, mefarek. Unloading the fruit. Which means, which means what? That mefarek is the food from the psoles, right? It comes out that if a person would unload the psoles from the fruit, what would that be? That would be the opposite melachah. Why is it—why is mefarek called a toldah dash? Why is it not dash? Since it's the opposite, since it's the good from the bad, it should be a toldah of dash, right? So that's why Rashi learned that what was the case? The case was—ma she'ein kein Tosafos always learned the case of mefarek is the bad from the good. If the word mefarek is the peirush from the good, then I gotta learn mefarek is not dosh. I have to learn mefarek is chayav. That's pashut pshat in the machlokes. It has to be the opposite. Because if it's the opposite, it's the opposite. Okay, when are they opposite? When I say the opposite, I don't mean—it's the same thing, but it's different order, you see? Opposite, okay? You got it? Yoish will get. You hear? No? That's like Tosfos wouldn't anymore. Once you learn mefarek is to take the bad away from the good, then it's the opposite. But why is there a chiluk between mefarek and dosh? Mefarek is dosh. Mefarek always has to be that you're mefarek the ilan mimasa. I know. Perfect, I know. Beautiful, huh? No, every time mefarek, mefarek according to Rashi has to be the good from the bad. Mameila, to tell us—that's pshat Rashi. Oh, mefarek ha'ilan, you're unloading a tree from its ilanot, from its good fruit. You're unloading, you're unloading the tree from its good peiros. You're taking the good. The good means you took off the bad. That's Tosfos. Tosfos learned that you're taking the klipah. If that's the case in mefarek, you don't want bothering Tosfos, then why is it a toladah? Then it should be the av melachah. That's why he explains. And that's why he explains that it has to be al chaylus. Mefarek has to be something completely different. You got it? Again, what's the basis of the machlokes, which means like this: mefarek, Rashi says it's toldah of dosh. Tosafos says it's not. Tosafos says what is it? It has to be memachek. It has to be memachek. Very pashut. But why does he learn mefarek? No, yeah, mefarek means good from the bad. I think could be because of what the Pri Chadash said. It's very possible, k'divrei haPri Chadash said. Meheicha Tosafos is mechadesh, just like by boirer, that's what I was saying, just like by boirer, the p'soles perek oichel is asur and the oichel mitoch p'soles is mutar, so there's two ways to learn that. If you take a look, we're going to learn boirer b'ezras Hashem, we're going to explain either because oichel mitoch p'soles is not the melachah, or because there's a special heter called derech achilah, which we're going to talk about. In boirer, we're going to talk about this too. You saw, you have some ... Tosafos. There's a very famous shailah in the Rishonim in boirer: is the reason why oichel mitoch p'soles is mutar because it's not the melachah? The melachah of p'soles mitoch oichel, oichel mitoch p'soles is just not that. So why it's not a toldah? Teretz is like what the Pri Chadash said: it's just not. I mean, it's not what it is. You can't take something the opposite and make it that. Or that menachem ...

Come, ... Come to know the heter of this heter is a derech achilah, or because it's not the melachah. Here, is doicheh pikuach nefesh mutar or asur on Shabbos? Asur, right? Ochel mitoch psoles, mutar or asur? Not only it's asur, it's chiyuv — that's how we eat, right? Why is that mutar? That's a machlokes Rishonim, which Yehoshua will talk about. Once again, give me one more second. There's a machlokes Rishonim why that is. Either the pshat is it's mutar because that's not the melachah. The melachah is psoles mitoch ochel, and this is the exact opposite. Other Rishonim say no. The heter should be at least a toldah, let it least be a toldah. Why is it not a toldah of the psoles mitoch ochel? Special heter called derech achilah. That's not even called borer. So by dosh, where you don't have that heter, so it can become what? A toldah. Tosfos says no. If that's the melachah, then the opposite can't be. In other words, you can't have the melachah psoles mitoch ochel, and then you have the toldah ochel mitoch psoles. It's the exact opposite. I mean, this is the issur, so then this is mutar then. Yeah. I'm telling you, it's machshavah what that means. Is the pshat is that there's a special heter called derech achilah? I'm telling you, it's based on this she'eilah, because if you wouldn't have the special heter, so we can already take psoles mitoch ochel, which is the shittah of Rabbeinu Yitzchak. That's where it comes from, because once there's a new heter — that's where it comes from — once there's a new heter called derech achilah, so then it can be psoles mitoch ochel also, already. That's where it comes from. You got it? Once there's a heter called derech achilah, then you can have psoches pechachilah also. That's the Ben Ish Chai. That's why Sefardim don't have a machlokes on the fish. B'shaas when they eat the meal, how can we eat the gefilte fish? B'shaas you eat gefilte. Where does that come from? Because there's no bones. What's the heter? You can't take the psoches pechachilah even when you eat. Yeah, so how do you eat it? You try to eat banana. See, that's not called— no, that's called derech— that's mamash achilah. The only way— Good, so let's separate the bones. It's different. In other words, to get to the— right, the bones. One is inside the food and one is on the outside of the food. One is that it's to get to the— one is to separate from within the food, but different. The food. They're not machmir because they hold one is something called derech achilah, so even if it's— pechachilah is possible. Once there's a heter called derech achilah, if you don't hold it's a heter, then it's stam pshat is there's no taam of good from the— Okay, again, so let me tell you the cheftz. It's a very, very simple cheftz. Listen to the cheftz. I ask you like this. I'm learning the chavrusa. I come along and I feel like this. I have here a machlokes Rashi and Tosfos. Rashi learns that mefarek is dosh. Tosfos learns mefarek is kotzer. Yeah. Why does Rashi have kotzer? You're right, Tosfos has the Gemara raya. What's the raya? Cholev and behemah. But what's the reason that— You see that you can be chayav cholev משום מפרק. That's the— I see where Tosfos got it from. My question is, why is it that way? Why is it that one shita here— why does Rashi hold that you can have mefarek if you dosh? But they came. Choisus learned that what the mefarek is what has to be chayav. I'm telling you, it's very simple, because you have to know what the mefarek is. Is mefarek oichel mitoch psoles, or is it psoles mitoch oichel? Then we have to know what dash is. Is dash psoles mitoch oichel or oichel mitoch psoles? If you were lucky, learned that dash is like the Rach. Right, right. No, dash is psoles mitoch oichel. So therefore, I could have learned that the mefarek toldah is psoles mitoch oichel, so it's oichel mitoch psoles. Because that's the regular av melachah. It has to be the opposite. So therefore it's oichel mitoch psoles. It's very, very—gotta be the garbage, the klipah. Mefarek itself is psoles. But he learned—he's learning if you're gonna learn mefarek, Rashi understood the word mefarek to mean good from bad also. Mefarek can mean good.

Could be good. The word mefaresh is good from there, so therefore it's telling the lashon. When it's good from there, because the ikar melachah is there, it's good. That's the pshat. No, you just got it. No, you picked up the sevara. You got it. You just got it, huh? Huh? Okay, we're gonna get. So, here. The next... You with me? You with me, Sefira? יפה. Amar Shmuel. Who wants to read the Gemara? Amar Rav Yehuda amar Shmuel. This is the end of this Tosafos. Tosafos says a chiluk between kaira and kedeirah. Where does it come from in this Gemara? Amar: kuf mem daled amud beis. Wait, wait, one more time. I'm not running all over the daf. This Tosafos brings the next line in Tosafos to this Gemara. Fine. What does the Gemara say here? Amar Rav Yehuda amar Shmuel: sochet adam... What is kedeirah? Food. What is kaira? Drink. Rashi. Rashi. Kedeirah... kedeirah... tavshil. Kaira... lemashkeh. Finish your...? No, no, he wants to make it... Right? Rashi says... tavshil is always food, he says. No. Okay, so usually karai is cool, but you can also put drink in it, right? Okay, that's fine. Carry drink. Now listen, okay? Be right. Now listen carefully, listen. Kamaskavai, you're right. ... Let's see. ... You know, ... you know how it is. When it says, karan kedeira, Rashi says kedeira is tavshil. Karai, sometimes there's drink in it. Now, let me ask you a kasha. What happens where there is no tavshil in it and there is no karai? There's no drink in it. I put it into the kli that's made for tavshil. Mutar or asur? A kasha like this. Halachah: chet ha-dam eskol shel anavim l'soch ha-kedeira. Sochet, we said that was what? Dash, the toldah of dash, נכון? The toldah of dash, what? Now the question is, is there a tavshil in it or it's without the tavshil? Are you allowed to put it into this thing because there will be a tavshil? Choireh, pashut, it would make sense with a tavshil. But if you look at Rashi by kedeira, Rashi says, what's kedeira? Tavshil. What's karai? Zimnin l'mashkeh ka'ei. May. Does Rashi mean therefore it should have to be there, therefore it's toldah that it's there? Or does Rashi mean even if it's not there? Up here. This is a ... machlokes Rishonim. Again, so chet adam. I just told you that you're allowed to squeeze lemons into salad. Anybody tell me that? Can I allow to squeeze lemons into water? No. Where does it come from? This one. One more. Because it's called ... Now, this one would be ... that's where it comes from. The tavshil is mutar l'toch ... Now, notice that the Gemara didn't say oichel and mashkeh. The Gemara said tavshil and kedeirah — not tavshil and kedeirah and kli. It's a big machlokes Rishonim: is the food in there? Is the drink in there? That's where the machlokes Rishonim. We don't know. We don't know. There's a big ... that posek halacha that taaroves kedeirah, even if both of them are not in there. This is omed for tavshil, and this is omed for kedeirah. This is normal to put it for tavshil, and it's ... Even if right now there's no food in there, you're allowed to squeeze lemons into there. And people — it looks that way. It looks like you're putting it l'tavshil, l'shmot.

They say, they say, food there, because there will be, according to the Beis Yosef. Now I want to show you where it comes from, and then we're going to explain the machlokes. Okay, now, again, Rashi again says what? Let's see b'daas from Rashi. Let's see Rashi's shita. We're going to show you there are four shitos in this thing, four shitos. You ready? So what's Rashi's shita? Again, read it, Yosef. What's kedeira? Shel tavshil. Where? Tachton. Muchach milsa. You see what it is? Muchach milsa. It has to be muchach milsa. Okay, so where does the chakirah come from? That even though it's not there, it's still muchach milsa, because that's what the Beis Yosef is saying. Okay, go ahead. Ela l'oichel, v'ein ze derech prikasoi, v'havei kimafrid oichel mi'oichel, because then it's food from food. I'm separating. No problem. That's why it's mutar. I'm just showing you from Rashi it's not clear is the food there or not, but the svara that Rashi uses, the svara that Rashi uses is muchach milsa, and it says the Beis Yosef that can even if the food is not there, as long as it's muchach milsa, I'm doing it for food, it's like I'm separating food from food. Okay? Does the food have to be there? It's not clear, Rashi. What about kedeira? This is even less. Kaira, sorry. This siman d'lo mashka kai. Sometimes it's there for drink. He has to clarify again, what does he mean? So it's only there sometimes, in what? So either you could say like this: since it's only l'zimnin, since it's only there sometimes, so that's an example already of what? Of luteicha mashka. Or it's enough to put it in such a thing because you don't have any more muchach milsa. If you don't have a muchach milsa, why? Because once the whole matter is only... since the whole matter is muchach milsa, now since you put mashka there sometimes, it's not muchach milsa anymore, it's for oichel. Before I'm going to have to ... See? Okay. Without holding it, without holding the maskara, I have to first, you have to teach how to read a Rashi. To me, it's more important to teach how to read the Rashi than to pasken shailas. You want pasken shailas, you look at the sefarim. I'm teaching how to read. Again, you take a Gemara. The Gemara says, Amar Rabbi Yehuda mishmuel, sochet es ha'am eskolsan avim, l'toch hakdeirah, aval lo l'toch hakarah. Period. End of Gemara. Quote unquote. Now, you read this Gemara and you say, Wait a second, there's a deal. What's the first diyuk you're supposed to make? Why doesn't he say ochel l'maaska? Why doesn't he say, Why didn't he say kedeirah and tavshil? Kedeirah and kaira. Why talk about the utensil? Talk about the food. The teretz is very important. The pshat, you could say that you don't need the food and you don't need the mashkeh, as long as it's a pot for food, then it's mutar. If it's a pot for—this is how the Beis Yosef has to work. The diyuk is unbelievable. Now the question is, is that what Rashi holds? Let's see the Rashi inside now. Rashi says again, l'toch hakdeirah, kedeirah you should know, shel tavshil. Now, l'daknoi, to fix it, d'muchchan milsa d'lav l'mashkeh boi. It's muchach that you don't want the food. Now, does he mean that the food is there, or does he mean like the Beis Yosef, that just because it's a—since it's a plate for food, the muchach milsa is for food? He says the words, muchach milsa. The words, the muchach milsa. I don't know. Muchach milsa means either the food has to be there, or like the Beis Yosef. I don't know, I don't know. It's not clear in Rashi. Now, d'lav l'mashkeh, muchach milsa, d'lav l'mashkeh boi lei. Ela l'ochla, rather for the food. ... I'm saying you don't see in Rashi more. I'm just telling you, Rashi is the biggest. You don't see it. You just said, mukhanos. Maybe it means mukhanos without the food being there. What? Okay, so let's see the next Rashi. The next Rashi: l'toch hakdeirah, so taftel l'saktoi. Okay, sorry, and what about l'toch hakara? There it's only zimnin u'mashkachai. I don't know. I'm saying I don't know. It's not clear. You can learn both ways. To say zimnin, so could be it's just a mashal. It would be. When you, you know, you just said it yourself. What did you just say? Could be. That means not mukhanos. You just said it yourself. Could be. So if it's could be. Okay, to say it better, to say how you want to say it. The second he says zimnin mashma, you need every time, sometimes there should be, because since...

Even though it's used for food, like Yosef said, but it's used for food. The zimun is used for mashkin. He's explaining what a kaira is. Exactly, and he just has to explain this. He just has to explain, like the Yad. What do you mean? But a kedeira is also, a kaira is also for eating. But it's dimdu l'mashkin. That's what Rashi is saying. That's all Rashi is saying. Or maybe Rashi is saying, zimnu l'mashkin, so therefore you don't have any more the lucha, and therefore what happens? Okay. These two pshatim, if you take a look, is a machlokes in the Meiri itself. Bring me the Meiri. I want to show you the Meiri brings out the machlokes. ... יש בה אוכל שמאכל ... ... לא, לא, מה זה? ... Two words before that, very important words. ... Two words before. Start from the beginning again. ... יש בה אוכל. ... You told me that there is food. Not you told me that it's raui for food, or it's a bowl of food, but it's a bowl with food. Not of food or for food, but with. Yeah, you listening? ... הרי הוא כמפרר אוכל לתוך אוכל, שכל מה שכך בא לאכול הרי הוא כאוכל. ... וכן, באוכל ... בקיוצא באלו, ואין בזה הפרש בין השולח עומד לאכילה בין שעומד למשקין. ואף על פי שיש גדולי המפרשים שכתבו, ועומד לאכילה אינו כן, שאם כן העומד למשקה אף לאכילה יאסר, ולא מצינו בגמרא איסור אלא למשקין היוצאים מהן, אלא שעומד למשקין ... Some want to know what the fruit is made of. Some fruits are orange, are squeezing the oranges, and some of them are eating oranges. He says it shouldn't make a difference. ... Here, the kara is a case of what? It's empty. It doesn't matter. ... Somehow, kedeira with food and kaira with drink, that it's only asur kaira with drink inside. There are four shitos. Either mutar is only with oichel inside, issur is only with mashkeh inside. There's another shita that holds mutar is even—what? Okay, if you don't, can I just tell you one more nekudah? One more nekudah. You ready? Come, one more nekudah. One more nekudah. My question is like this: I want to know what exactly is the issur of psochim? Is it the psoles from the oichel? I'll show you a big machlokes Rishonim tomorrow. Is the problem in the parek that now you're mishtaneh, you're changing, meaning you took from food and you made juice? You listen good. That shitas haTosafos, I'll show you tomorrow clearly. The shitas haTosafos is that the problem with chitas peiros is, I went a moment ago and I had food and I created orange juice. If someone asks you, do they make orange juice here? You mean create orange juice? Yes, we create orange juice. Azoi says the Tosafos. He created. He took oichel, vena'aseh mashkeh. He made mashkeh out of it. Mitzah tomorrow, clearly in Tosafos. Tosafos reads oranges. That's not the problem. What's the problem? Now listen to it. Listen to what Tosafos reads, a chiddush here. When a person takes and he squeezes an orange, right, meaning that it comes out that the orange is meant for, as far as you're concerned, l'maaska. You want the juice from this orange. Could every part of this orange turn into juice? No. Comes out those parts are פסולת now.

For example, if you would take the pieces and get them into the thing, you wouldn't even want it. Today it's a big thing. Piece, they like. Pulp. Oh, they like the pulp today. But says the Tosfos, the etzem, the pulp, the pulp is considered what? It's considered some... is the garment. Now that it's the garment, afi mafik oichel mitoich. Now you see, I tie it back to Rashi. You'll see tomorrow. It says the Ra, says the Tosfos Rid, clearly in Kuf Mem Daled that that's the chisaron of shechitas peiros. Ra, Tosfos learns the chisaron of shechitas peiros is what? You created orange juice. The Ra, during the Tosfos Rid learns, no, what you're creating, creating. What it is is right now I took the orange, I turned it into—I don't look at it as orange, I look at it as juice now. Now every piece of it is the juice of that. This comes out that that's solus, and when I take the juice, I'm taking the oichel mitoich hapsolus. Oichel mitoich... according to Rashi is what? Mefarek. Toldes... Tomorrow, Tosfos Rid is Rashi. Yeah? Okay. L'maaseh Hashem, tomorrow these are the two nekudos we're going to have to work on. Nekudah number one we have to work on: when is the issur of sechita? Is the issur of sechita mamash when it's toich mashkeh, and its heter is only when mamash mitoich oichel, or even when it's what? Into the... We'll see the four shitos tomorrow. Four shitos in the Rishonim. L'maaseh, then we bring down two of them, and the Beis Yosef, we'll see there's four shitos. Then tomorrow, Mr. Shmuel, we will discuss what is shitas, and then we'll see how it ties back to shitas Rashi and what Tosafos is about. All right? You with me? You want to bring me the Beit Yosef? Bring me the Beit Yosef. Bring me the ... Shabbos, no? Okay. I'ma review the Shmuel. Look at this. I'ma review the Shmuel. The Gemara is kuf mem daled amud ... Amar Rabbi Yehuda amar Shmuel. When I'm the taikof? Taikof, where are you? Shmuel. Sochet adam eskol shel anavim. A person could be tochet eskol shel anavim, yeah? Eskol shel anavim. Now, Rabosai, why does the Gemara bring a case of eskol shel anavim? Great. Why? Because that's the only thing they used to squeeze in the old days. Oh, by the way, that's the only thing they used to squeeze. Oh. That, that, that, because ... and everything. Everything else. Why? Because they bring a case of ... We'll soon see. It's very interesting. We'll talk about it. But grapes, they used to walk on it. What about oranges? They never used to make oranges? They didn't have. Lemons? They didn't have lemons. Okay, so just keep this in mind. Anavim. Bring it, okay? Watch the ... Like a cow is thing. It will soon. Now, keep in mind that the Gemara gave an example. The Gemara could have said, ha-sochet peiros, why anavim? Why does it speak about anavim? It could be there's a better explanation. Now, sochet anavim here, sochet is also anavim. L'toch hakdera, af al pi shelo l'toch hakara. Now notice that the Gemara didn't say ochel u'maskeh. The Gemara says kedeirah and kara. Says Rashi, what is kedeirah and kara? Kedeirah is always tavshil, and kara, b'derech klal, could be, could be, is mashkeh. It could be mashkeh. That's how Rashi explains. Kedeirah is a tavshil, food. Chicken, huh? Food. Where would it... that's tavshil, is a tavshil. I guess they knew, I guess they knew, but your kasha should be better. But, kara, Rashi says, matzui, it sometimes has drink in it. But kedeirah is always for tavshil. So the kasha, what is tavshil? Why would the Gemara first of all speak about, if it's food and drink, let it say l'toch ochel, l'toch mashkeh. Why are we talking about kelim? Why are the kelim important? Talk about ochel u'mashkeh.

Take a look at the Beis Yosef, but I'm Beis Yosef. Go ahead, read it. Go ahead. That it doesn't make a difference, taka. As long as it's ochel, chai b'kara, chai b'stafshil mutar. And—I'm sorry, no, no, no. The Yosef is the opposite. The Yosef says no food, doesn't make a difference. Kara is always mutar. Sorry, kara is always asur, tafshil is always mutar. Go ahead, read. Who? Yeah, who? So what? Now let me explain to you what the issue over here is. When you push it, when you squeeze it into food, l'chura, l'chura, it's not called meot pita, because you didn't squeeze juices. Pumpsa miyad l'toch ochel, the ochel l'toch ochel. Mashen kein, when you squeeze it into a juice, then you made a juice out of it. So practically it shouldn't make a difference what the keli is. The ikar is im yesh ochel, im yesh mashkeh, נכון? Again, pashut from the Gemara. Someone asked you before, because the whole thing is, if it's into food, then it's ochel, it's called ochla daferes, food which still is food, nothing changed. It went from food to food. If it went from food to liquid—huh? I can't hear. Ochla daferes, that's יסוד הבית. That's why it's not מוקצה, ochla daferes. Look at the Beis Yosef again. Beis Yosef. There it is. Okay, katav—this is Rashi. Then he says like this. This is something else. This is... One second, one second. This is something else. This is... Ika ma d'amar, d'hai mem b'Shabbos itmar, v'lo shemushlach. This is something else. This is kvashim meshulakos. Here's the Beis Yosef. There, there, here it is. So why do you talk about the karan, seras ochel l'maska? The Gemara says like this: So chelev adam, a person can be chayav tochal ochel, v'ein sochatin toch mashkeh. What does the kedeira have to do with it? What does the pot have to do with it? If the issur is the food and the drink, right, so it doesn't matter what pot it's in. Let's say you would have food in a kara, what would be the halacha? Or let's say you would have drink in a tapsil. That's what the Beis Yosef is dealing with here. The ikar is a keli. We don't care so much the food and the drink; the ikar is the keli, like the lashon of the Gemara. Why are you allowed? Because it's called food. It didn't change anything. It went from food to being food. Okay. Where is this Beis Yosef? So I have to get my own... She'ein ba ochel, aval lisful לתוך ochel mutar. D'mashka ba loch ochel, damei datei v'siyata. Very good. Now what happens if there's taka ochel in this kara? Let's say put oichel in the kaira. The pshat is the... So the diyuk he's trying to make is it doesn't matter what's really there, it's what usually... The opposite. It's not matter what's there, what's there, what's the... No, but this is what he says, and the Chanami, that's what he says. Go read it.