Shabbos 73b: Tochen, Grinding Food, and the Introduction to Borer

Transcript

If it would have started with kipa, it would be good. Our Bavli, our Bavli, does not bring down the chalal, this inyan of kipa de-kipa. Rather, the Bavli brings down just the inyan of ufsha milsa. That's the big sugya of ufsha milsa, yeah? The Bavli yud-ches does not bring down, well, hilcheta kipa de-kipa. Again, if someone asks you, Bavli, why am I allowed to put, or am I allowed to put wheat into a chayim shel mayer Erev Shabbat? What's the answer? No. What's the reason? Either because ufsha milsa, or because what? It never started. It takes longer. If it would start Erev Shabbat, we would... since it didn't start, right, you have a Yerushalmi, huh? You want the Yerushalmi? You want to take it? Okay. Come to learn the Bavli, and you look at the Bavli, the Bavli doesn't bring the second taam; it only brings the first taam of ufsha milsa. There's a vort from the Rakach. Or is it the Rakach? No, the... he says, what's the answer to the machlokes, the Bavli and Yerushalmi? He says, the Bavli... I say, puk chazi the Rakach. Says the Rakach... ... מה איסור של תוספת? ... האיסור ... ... The Bavli doesn't bring the ... that's me. Right, there's opening. I understand, that's why I'm asking. So, he drashens the sefer. Drashens the sefer in the Bavli. But don't — that's, that's. The Bavli learns what it says. No. The Bavli learns what — the Bavli learns what — the Bavli learns is the Torah, making kemach. They will do no heter if it started to be tefeicha l'tefeach with parech. So what? Here. What does the Yerushalmi say? Lo hichilu with parech. And if it was hichilu with parech, you're still going to make your kemach here. Toychen is not until you make the kemach. When does the issur take place, making kemach, not by being mefarek, by chopping it up into crumbs or turning it into kemach. Why does the — what's the difference between the issur? Points like, when a person makes flour, what was the issur? Chopped everything up, the act of chopping it up, or that now you've created flour, new flour, the tefeach you made flour. When the Yerushalmi comes and gives a second teretz, that it didn't start yet, every tefach cracked. It didn't start yet, right? Mashma that if it started to crack, if every tefach started to become disintegrated, still don't have kemach yet. Who cares if the prachim already? The process of flour, not the process of having kemach, process of tochen and grinding it. So the Yerushalmi learns that etzem ma'aseh tochen is the issur. The Bavli learns it was the result that's the issur. So our Bavli is that it happened later. That's why it couldn't give the teretz from Yerushalmi, and that's the machlokes. That's the machlokes Yerushalmi and Bavli. That's the... Because the Gemara comes along and says in Yerushalmi that kol peh pasul lifareish, right? Machlokes, techilah lfareish, right? Posel needs techilah, right? Posel is not lfareish. Posel is to make sevara. Lfareish is not the problem. The problem is the making of the kama. Lfareish means it's a sintic, right? It's trying to, right? To make similar pieces is not the issue. The issue is to make kama. That's why the Yerushalmi's kereis doesn't make sense. What? It's od lo yechilu lfareish. Yeah, of course. I mean, you'll see od lo yechilu lfareish. Kama anyways after. Even if the yarei yechilu lfareish, it still wouldn't help you according to the Yerushalmi. According to the Bavli. Okay, yeah? Let's say yechilu lfareish. According to the Bavli, it won't be that long. It's still going to be good. The Yerushalmi is saying once it's yechilu lfareish, that's already techilas posel. Posel beganneres. Why? Because the etzem maaseh of lfareish, techilah is the issue.

Yeah, that's for you. As long as you put it in the machine. Yeah, mashina. You didn't bake the matzah machine. Yeah, it's a machine. Life was already from Erev Shabbos. So the machine was on, man. The machine was on, but the toaster didn't have to. But like it's about in Yerushalayim. Let me just say one thing. Let's get the Ramb. The Rambsman wants to answer. He answers. The powder, the powder, the powder. And Rosh agrees to him. Rambsman is the actual... No. That's why you need the thing for the fire. That's why you need the... No, that shouldn't be the... That shouldn't be the... According to Rashi, the chad thinks that. Okay, you cut it a little. According to the Rosh, you had to have a kemach like come from it. You had to have a kemach from. That's why. That's it. Oh, that's how it is by peiros. By peiros, when you chop it, you make a small salad. What results from? Why? Because... That's by Rashi. By peiros, what came in the Rosh, that's the result. What's the... You have... Now you have. What happened? Unless you have... Unless it's something, a special type of thing. That's why what? That's why the Rosh... What's the point? You had an argument. That's the kutches. Point of the kutches is, it's not that I cut the same thing into a new thing. I have to make it into a new thing. I have to be me'aseh; I have to create it into a new thing. I know, we'll continue tomorrow. We're not even close. I wish I could just show you. I mean, there's not enough time now. The lashon of the Rambam, how the Rambam learns taich. Read the Rambam and then we take apart. Yes. The Rambam himself says the ... of the Lord. The Rambam himself says this. How did I get it from? I got it from the Rambam. Can read the Rambam. ... Not like ... not like the ... Why is it ...? Go ahead. Why did ...? And that's why he paskens what? ... And that's why ... Why is the ...? ... Yeah. To me it's difficult to say Yerushalmi and Bavli. I'll tell you why. Because in the Bavli you have the machlokes Rishonim. I'm just using the Rokeach's words. The Rokeach says Bavli Yerushalmi. I'm saying that word is true in the ... You see? The Rambam says, why is the ...? Because I made the ... First I ... one piece of fruit, and now I ... piece of fruit. What happened? Nothing changed. Then, according to the Rambam, that's ... No. No, because the ... chadash, right? We don't care about the gemei kemach. According to the Rambam, we don't care about that. You want to know why? You want to know why? Because ... The ... is ... not ... But you see how he learns this. Why? Because ... one to many. Do you see that? What's the pshat? It's not ... It's here, it comes out, it's ... but the Rambam is not like the ... Okay, do you see clearly? Yesterday we spoke out that there's a machlokes the Bavli and the Yerushalmi, right? Yes. That the Bavli learned — the question is like this: the person allowed to put, the person allowed to put wheat ... in order to continue on Shabbat, right? That was the question. I showed you yesterday the Yerushalmi. The Yerushalmi brings two shitos, one from Rav Chaggai, one from Rabbi ...

Water, water milk. Works on the water, what happens? Grind. Grind. The Gemara says, Reb Chagi and Reb Yaisi. Reb Chagi says you're not allowed, because uvsha milsa. It makes too much noise on Shabbos. When something makes noise on Shabbos, it's called zilzul uv'Shabbos. Too noise, too loud. Uvsha milsa. Make too much noise. Uvsha milsa, right? Meaning, on Shabbos it's zilzul. So Shabbos, if you have a factory, you have machines going on Shabbos, loud noise. Sounds like a factory is going on Shabbos, right? Uvsha milsa. Reb Yaisi says no. Reb Yaisi says, what's the reason you're not allowed? Because every piece of wheat didn't start to crack yet. When you grind, right, every wheat didn't finish cracking yet. A lot of it is going to crack when? On Shabbos. So od lo yechil. Hatchala melacha od lo yechil. When are you allowed to start and to finish on Shabbos? Not even three quarters. To start, you're allowed to start, to finish on Shabbos. But to start directly on Shabbos, about to set up something that should go on Shabbos, you're not allowed to. Right? But so what do you do with those pieces of wheat that didn't? Those wheat, those pieces of wheat, this one, wheat one through fifty started. What about wheat fifty-two and fifty-eight and fifty-nine and sixty-five and eighty-two and eighty-nine? Those pieces of wheat, they didn't have it. And even the ones in between had, but there's still going to be wheat that didn't crack yet. According to him, he holds a twista milsa. Yes, but... He holds a twista milsa, meaning even if you're going to forget about ovsha milsa, you still have a problem, which means, even if it doesn't make noise. But what about the... Ovsha milsa is once it's mutar, you have a problem. You try to do it with the rights, you have a problem. You try to... Again, again, laundry, it depends. Good, so that's the ovsha milsa makes too much noise. You don't keep the washing machine and dryer going on Shabbos. Makes too much noise. It makes too much noise. So then it's mutar. No, because what they do is they put the kosos a lot of times. You put it into the cleaning, the dishwasher. It doesn't make noise, the cleaning dishwasher. Technically it doesn't. Even laundry, they say... It doesn't make noise. If it doesn't make noise, you can't stop it; it has to stop by itself. If it stops by itself, then it's mutar to take it out. Okay, now listen carefully, okay? We will learn—don't worry, we'll learn all these halachos, kap. We'll learn all these halachos. Now, בקיצור, yeah? Reb Chagi and Reb Yaisi. The Bavli only brings down Reb Chagi's svara, meaning ovsha milsa. What's wrong with Reb Yaisi's svara? Why couldn't... I mean, nice svara. Not every piece only started, right? Good svara. Says the Rav Yitzchak very simple. That's what the Gemara is saying, Reb Yaisi. Reb Yaisi said not every piece starts to crack yet. The other way, three... comes and he says a... You got to know what's wrong with tochen. You got to see what the problem is. If toichin hamaaseh shehu hatochen, that you are mafrid small big pieces, small pieces, or asiyas hakemach is the problem. If you learn big pieces and small pieces, then the Yerushalmi is right. רבי יוסי is saying a beautiful svara. רבי יוסי, not every piece, itchil. Lemaaseh, this piece on Shabbos became from big to small. If you learn that you'd see that the creation of kemach is the problem, so lemaaseh the yetziras hakemach haya kvar. Started already. Yetziras hakemach was there. You already created kemach. Is it the maaseh? Is it the cracking of the chitim? Or is the yetzira, is the creation of kemach, meaning hotzaah? Did you now create kemach? That's the machlokes, the Bavli and the Yerushalmi. Yerushalmi learns that it's each piece, every piece. That's the way he told us. Each piece. Okay. Good. So, you with me? Simcha, you with me? Good, right? Beautiful, right? The Yerushalmi says, Rabbi Yosi says, what does Rabbi Yosi say? Rabbi Yosi says that each piece, right, didn't crack yet, but what? Lemaaseh the kemach, itchil kvar.

יש לך קמח קצת, יש לך, right? So זה התחיל. עצם עשית את הקמח, התחיל. אלא מאי? יש לך חיטה שעדיין לא נפרד. If you learn שכל חיטה שאני מפריד זה איסור טוחן, אז לכן, זה חיטה אחת, זה יצא בסדר, אבל זה חיטה עוד לא נפרד. This one separate, fine, but this one didn't separate. Each one has the problem of tochen. אשרי, if you learn עשית את הקמח, הקמח כבר עשוי. That's the ... הקמח כבר עשוי, אלא מאי? זה עוד לא נגמר. בסדר, מותר לי להתחיל ולגמור בשבת. That's how we learn. ופי בבלי— no, ופי בבלי תעשיית הקמח. It's a תוצאה, עשית קמח. I made קמח. ממילא, was the קמח made already? Yes, the קמח made already. The only thing is, I'd rather don't understand one נקודה, and I'll tell you why. I thought about it again last night, and I'll tell you what bothers me, and at the end of the shiur you'll even see it's better. למעשה, you didn't make קמח from every חיטה yet. As— it's not pshat יש לך oil, והoil נתרבה. כל חיטה נעשה קמח אחת. החיטה הזו עדיין לא נעשה קמח. You can't answer me that what, הקמח כבר יש, the קמח's already here, and so this that you're making more on Shabbat, oh, זה אחר כך... I don't see it. It's a little bit difficult this part. You understand what I'm saying? Again, you with me? Come, it's going to get so interesting, I promise. I guarantee you, I guarantee you that at the end of the shiur you'll— You enjoy it so much that you'll say, like the Chafetz Chaim said, ... So, ... ready? Again, the Rav Ketzav's word is what? Baba kama. Reason why the Yerushalmi does not bring, just brings down Rabbi Yosi, which means kol chitah v'chitah, dayan lo yitchil, the Bavli doesn't want to bring it down. Why does the— why does the Bavli not want to bring it down? What's wrong with Rabbi Yosi? How can the Bavli doesn't bring Rabbi Yosi? Only on Yud Ches amud beis it brings uvsha milsa. What's the reason? Explain. Since the issur is what, according to the Bavli, to make kemach, ha-kemach kvar hitchil. Ha-kemach kvar hitchil. Ela mai, ma she-nitosaf, zeh hosafah ba-kemach, aval kemach kvar hitchil. Mashen kein, what the Yerushalmi learned is what? Kol chitah she-ani mafrid, azeh tochen l'atzmo. Asiti mechitah shnayim. Mishnayim ani oseh ma? Arba. Kol ma she-ani shoveh, az ladayan tochen. So ein hatchalah v'sof, ein kazeh davar. So on Shabbat, if let's say the fifty didn't split till Shabbat starts, the fifty now, they're tochen, each one. The same thing, truthfully. So that's my kashya. By kemach, each one, they become kemach, yes? ... You hold that if a person is ... kemach. When is he allowed to make it? When he's only making bread. Kol ma she'ani mosif, then עכשיו מה אני מוסיף על הכמח. The kemach, he tofel and עושה קמח. Maybe kemach. That gives me just svara that he's saying. Yeah. That's chiluk Shabbos. The issue of Shabbos is, and we look at each grain. This grain split now, but this grain didn't split till Shabbos. Why? It's like everybody becomes one. When there's one, it's like... Each chitah split erev Shabbos or on Shabbos. Some of it split on Shabbos. That's the problem of Yesh Shabbos. He says, but the problem, he doesn't learn it's splitting. It's making of kemach. Kemach is made already. So I ask, I don't understand, but l'maaseh I'm making more kemach on Shabbos. L'maaseh I'm making more kemach on Shabbos. It's not the making of the kemach. You want to make extra kemach on Shabbos. Maybe it's not the making of the kemach. Imagine... מתחילתה בזה.

So something is a very famous ... you hear? Are you allowed to take silverware and pick it up for no reason? Mr. Bruz is ... No, you're not. Halacha is, halacha is a keli shemelachto l'heter, shelo l'tzorech, you're not allowed. Exactly. The point is you're not allowed to play with a fork for no reason. You should know all the yeshiva ... you look in yeshivas, they're very ... don't play with the fork. Shabbos. Every movement—you didn't know this? Every movement on Shabbos. And you know what it is? If you saw the Gedolim, you'd see that they behave that way on Shabbos. Everything they thought about was ... You're not allowed to play with a keli shemelachto l'heter, shelo l'tzorech. Comes along ... and it said, Eh, no such halacha. Ein sucha ... Why? ... Why? If you're picking it up, that's a ... I mean, what is ... I mean, you're telling ... that's a ... You're using it. Then if it's ... I pick up some ... I'm nervous, I'm playing with it, okay? ... What do you want, an act? That's ... David's ... is ... anyway, so ... You can't play with it. This ... has a fork. You're allowed to use on Shabbos. You're only allowed to use with ... Okay, we'll learn all these halachos. We'll learn all these halachos. We'll learn all these halachos. Okay, listen good. Okay, now, now listen good. Let's take a look now how the Rambam explains to us tochen. Where's the Rambam? See, see, see, see, Rambam. Rambam, mam, mam, mam. Explain. If you look at the פירוש המשניות, he says the same thing. The Rambam פירוש המשניות. What is tochen? What is tochen? פרק ז', הלכה ה'. התולדה ... שנדע שכל תולדה has to be דומה לאב. Continue. Okay. Some is ... small in pieces, right? ... That's very good. The Yalkut Yosef makes a diyuk. What's לבשלו? Okay, who? Why does it say לבשלו? What's לבשלו? Yeah. See, why he needs לבשלו? ... he not קורע, he finished. What is לבשלו? Okay, let's see further. Oh, you see that? What is תוכן? לוקח גוף אחד, ... לגופים קטנים. Nothing new. Like Rashi. Now what? ... דק דק, huh? This time you have to hold this. Now, what? Okay, is it? Okay, see this. How does he explain toichen? Dak dak, chatichah chatichah, lo ya'itzur chadash. Now, let's see an interesting Tosafos again. We started learning the Tosafos yesterday. Dafka silka, aval sha'ar ochlin shari. The only time we have a problem with toichen is only silka. So Tosafos, one line. Remember the word, dafka silka. Aval sha'ar ochlin, other food is shari. Why? I told you yesterday one pshat. I told you what the reason is, because ein darko. The way is to cut up silka, but it's not the way to what? To cut up other things. This is the machlokes Rishonim. If you take a look in the Tosafos HaRosh, Tosafos HaRosh, which is beautiful. Let me tell you about learning. I don't want to teach you. What is the Tosafos HaRosh? The Rosh wrote over the Tosafos, and he used to add one word. Yeah, come on, all the Tosafos, come on. Yeah, sure. And he would add one word. That word, read. Bring it.

Right, here, it's a little harder, because it's much more. You have to read between. Read it, no? Chabad, who reads, no? Right. Chavot, no? Tom, wait. Hai man deparish silka, ayin daled amud beis, right? The Gemara, no? Ayin daled. Learn, learn and listen, yeah, no? Oh! Oh! Came that kapikah. So, you saw what he added to Tosfos? Oh. Which three words did he add to Tosfos? That karka. That karka. See? That's called knowing how to learn Rishon. Now you see what I mean? You saw the Tosfos, and you see how the Tosfos Rosh brings the Tosfos, and you see what he added on? Three words: that karka. Silka. It's normal. It's a normal thing to take silka and to make it into what? And to make it into grada. Grada. Grada means... By the way, it's very powerful. That's why the Rambam brings it in l'maaseh, because what did the Rambam need? The darkoi. The Rambam will try to understand, matter of fact, you need some matter of fact, darkoi. No, you needed a case where a person's going to be chozer... that it should be darkoi. I guess in the times of the Rambam, gidei l'vashlo became darkoi. That's why the Rambam gave such a case. Salad. They didn't make salad. Therefore, that's why it's asur on Shabbos. On Shabbos. Making ערב Shabbos. What do you mean? Tochen, no? This is tochen on Shabbos. That's an opinion. We don't hold like that, but I'm telling you. Tosfos holds the opposite. Tosfos says this is derech b'kach, right? The Rosh is the opposite. Since it's derech b'kach, it's mutar l'echol on Shabbos. Okay. Comes along the Ritva. The Ritva learns a little different. Good. Take the Ritva, something new one. No, you have to do it. Good. Read, read, read. See how the Ritva learns it different. Tosfos says dafka ochlin. Says the Tosfos that ... came derech b'kach. The Ritva says it completely different. Here's what it says, three words. Who? Kein derech b'kach, it's normal. I say, sukkah is patur, asur tochen because derech b'kach to make it. You can't have tochen. You can't be tochen something which is not derech b'kach. Why am I bringing what? This ... I'm just telling you ... Tosfos is dafka ochlin. Oh, here. Listen. This is what I want. Listen. This is ... This is not ochel kemo shehu chai, aval b'pas ... v'raui l'ochlo l'aat, harei hu mutar, v'ken nir'eh l'rabbeinu ... So it doesn't ... It's something why you ochlin is a chai. Silka, vayotzei chai. Chen, asur toches with toches. Not toches; yoser. Only where I can eat the silkas and I do toches, toches becomes asur. Hashem, kepas. If I'm tochen pat, baruch, if I'm tochen pat, shalom. Mutar. Like cut up apple, mutar. Bread, mutar. Forget about apple. Silka or loch. Silka. This one chai, so you have to be tochen. No, it's one. Edible or not edible. Silka is not edible unless you crush it, huh? I'm telling you, obviously the case was it had to be ground. You know what the best example is? Best example: grain. Grain is the best example. You can't eat it regular; you have to grind it. Garlic. You can't eat garlic regular; you have to chop it. Yeah, okay, not if you're crazy. Normal people don't eat garlic regular. Yeah. ... so people garlic. Believe me, you gotta make a bracha on that. ... Straight, straight.

Talk about that. Anything like steel, which needs ... something that's edible. Some people take this and put it on the bread. Good. The bite has to be on the bread like this, not in a plate, because ... Too much ... rice, clearly. You have to ... So first of all, rov don't do that. Bnei Adam surely don't do that. Good. ... You don't do it. They put it on the ... Good, I'm telling you. Garlic is chopped. Crane is chopped. That's the way it is. I never saw a guy eating raw radish. You chop it. Do you eat raw horseradish? No. You take horseradish, take a bite out of it. You know the red radish? ... Watch the machlokes. Watch the machlokes. Now, you're going to understand. Yes, so don't understand. The what? The what? Crane. Either the pshat is something which is not cooked. It has to be normal like you do it. It's common ... here, to common chop, to take a, let's see, good example. Take a tomato. A tomato. They chop it. Give me another example. People chop apples today also. I don't know. To take a vegetable, a potato. Nobody takes a potato and chops it into little pieces, right? You don't chop potatoes into little pieces, right? Okay. Memeila, anything which is not darko doesn't have tochen. Doesn't have tochen. According to Tosafos, you cannot have tochen by potatoes. According to the Ra, you can have it. Why can you have it? According to the Ra, because you made it into ketishah. Tochen is ketishah. According to Tosafos, it has to be chatachah. Chatachah has to have tochen. Exactly. According to Tosafos, you can't do grama on Shabbos. Which part? According to the Ra, the melachah of tochen is ketishah. Ketishah is shayach by potatoes, because that's what you do. You crush the potato, right? You mash the potato. Mashein kein, according to the Ra, you don't have it by cucumbers. Salad, you won't have a problem. Why would you have a problem? Because ein ketishah b'salad. Machon? Ein ketishah b'salad. So then, on the opposite, Israeli salad, according to Tosafos, the Ra, it would be a problem. According to the Ra, it's not a problem, because according to the Ra, you don't care if you make it into little pieces. Now, then we have another thing. Even the vegetables, shar asur, has to be darko bkach, to be asur. Asur, darko bkach, it should be tochen. It's not tochen. The Rif comes along and says, no. The Rif says it has to be what? Something that makes it edible. עכשיו אני יכול לאכול את זה. ולפני זה לא הייתי יכול לאכול. Wait a second. Comes along the Ran. Comes along the Ran. He's beautiful. Sometimes he becomes chassid. Comes along the Ran and he says like this. You don't know how to... The shita laRan... Says the shita laRan the same as the Ritva; he's mosif two words. Ritva is not the Ran. Ritva is Tosafos. Tosafos says that davka what? Why davka silka? I didn't see it, but why davka anything like silka? Because it has to be something which was not ra'ui before and now it's ra'ui. Two words. Let's see, who can find the two words in the Ran that explain the shita of the Rif? The Rif we just said, right? The Ran brings down the same thing.

Hello? Which part is wrong? Which part? It's very simple, again. Come here. According to Rashi, what is toich? Chatichah, chatachah. Back, back, cutting into little pieces. Correct or incorrect? Therefore, only cutting little salads into little pieces is a problem. If I took a potato, because I have to... Okay, take in that over there. ...but it's... ...That's correct, yeah. ...וכן כתב בעל התרומה, דמותר לחתוך בסכין בשבת, וביד... ...כיוון דלאחר, כמו שהוא... ...הוא... ...אבל ביום טוב... ...אוכל נפש. ...Okay, so, you ready? Let's see. Comes along—see, Rashi is chatichah, make into little... anything, anything. Oh, we don't know yet, we don't know. It doesn't say. It just says cut into little pieces. That's ברור. Comes along the Rosh and says only mash. Tisha. According to the Rosh, potatoes would be aser, while according to Rashi, potatoes would be mutar. Why? Because it's not cutting into little pieces; you're smashing. You don't have two ... You're not cutting ... You mashed it into one big clump. You cut the potatoes. But that's the problem. The problem with cutting potatoes is not darko; that's toiserin. Now in Rashi, we have a Tosafos. Tosafos says it has to be dafka silka. There's two ways to learn dafka silka: either dafka silka shekein darko bekach, because it's normal to do, which says the Rosh, and then we have a Ritva that says a white silka. The silka can't be eaten any other way. Silka cannot be eaten any other way. ... The Ritva, huh? I thought ... I don't know why. ... I thought ... He says the same thing as the one ... Yeah. No, but hechsher ... Yeah, okay. Maybe that's ... I suppose different words, maybe. This is what I want. Huh? What's wrong? What's wrong? Very simple. What does the Ritva mean? Ritva means, huh? No. Tosafos says dafka silka. Explain to me why dafka. Why dafka silka? Either dafka because ... or the Ritva says what? What is tich? What is, in the other way, meaning don't wait ... So what is tich? Tich is preparation. That's the ... Tich is preparation for eating. Now. Now, so what do we have? We have like this. That's something else. That's the regular ... Now listen carefully, listen carefully. So what do we have? We have here machlokes: either darka b'kach, or al techsher achilah. What's the machlokes? This is the machlokes. If you learn tichin is a maaseh of tichin, so then you need darka b'kach. You need there to be maaseh tichin. What's the lashon of the Tosfos Rosh? It's not a maaseh tichin. That's the word used, right? If it's not that a kol b'kach, it's not maaseh tochen. Maaseh. Ma she'ein kein, the Ritva was learning in his Tosfos ... The ikar is, did you make kemach? So that's the whole thing. Kemach was not rye to eat before, now it's rye to eat. I made it into kemach, here too. Again, the machlokes, the Rosh and the Ritva is this machlokes. In the maaseh, you need darka b'kach. In the totzah, was darka b'kach. Whatever I created, I created, right? If I created something new, I created something new. That's the ...

Five, six. Something says in the ... that I can eat anywhere, as long as ... from the ... Like, ... a tapuz, ... tapuz. ... What did I create? I didn't change anything. That's the machloikes. How? But that's the whole thing. I can drink it. I can eat it anywhere. ... wasn't ראוי for anything. Now it's ראוי for baking. ראוי for baking. I'm not a beheima, I'm a person. ... Even if it's a ... and we say to ourselves, ... אם זה היה כשר לאכול, ועכשיו זה כשר לאכול, שום דבר לא יצרתי, nothing new came out. ... kemach יצרתי. עכשיו חיטה לקמח יצרתי. ... היצור, היצור means mei chita l'zeh, mi'lo ra'ui l'ra'ui. ... The difference between ... The difference between ... and ... is ... what? Ra'ui mi'mei ra'ui l'ra'ui, aval yitzur chadash, like ... I made drink. Mashenkin here is mi'lo ra'ui l'ra'ui. From chita to ketzah. From chita to ketzah. The difference between what? The difference. The chiddush is, I made something from chita, which was not ra'ui. Now I can go make cake and I can go make fing. I see tikunah. No, no, no, no, no. Twelve. Ritzui is like yisod in the Rach, correct? Yisod in the Rach. We apply in the type. You see in type? Okay, now. Das is, for example, soicher. I made juice from... Come, I'll go with you. Come, don't get lost. Come, come, sit down. The thing had to be unedible before to be asur al tochen. If it was edible before, then what is it? Then it's not tochen either. But in case tochen, this is the Tosafos Rosh's learning, we don't care about the ma'aseh itself. We care about the ma'aseh itself. This is not ma'aseh tochen. Why? Achkach lo tochnim. You have a guy comes out, grind the chair. You break a chair, you don't grind the chair. Here, I'll grind your head. You don't grind the head. What do you do? You break a head, right? That's not Tosafos Rosh. Darko bekach. It has to be darko. If it's not darko, you know what it is? It's called what? Breaking the beets. You don't break beets, right? You grind beets. Can I ask you, do you grind potatoes? No. You mash potatoes. You don't grind potatoes. You don't make... So you don't grind making beets, right? ... The main thing is yitzur. That's what we're going to discuss right now. We're not going there. So far we have two shitos. We have shita number one, that the ikar is the maaseh of techinah, and the second one is the ikar is what? The peliyotzim, shasiti, silka tachun. I made something. I created something new. I took wheat, unedible, and I created flour, which is edible. Right. Now I'm going to show you that there's a third shita. Yeah, I see, but it's right for the next step. It's right to make cakes now. It's right now for the next thing. Now I'm going to show you a third shita. I'm going to show you a third shita. You ready? So far we have two shitos. Not yet. Not yet. If you take a look, there's a very interesting Meiri. The Meiri brings down the Rashi. Yeah? It says, you know, Rashi, you say tochen, dat dak. Meiri, Rach, you say what? Ktisha. Sho'el ha-Meiri, lo mezivin bichlal. Lo mezivin. Lama li lo mezivin? Harei sof sof lo tachanta. What are you talking about? How could the melachah be tochen?

You quote kotesh. ... כתוב תוכן, ואתה אומר ... לא. Ktisha. Ktisha is not tochen, like ktisha. אתה כותש חיטים או טוחן חיטים. Oh, Rashi's good. Rashi's good. No, when you make something dot dot, that's called tochen. Yes, chotech. Yes, dot dot is a tochen. Tochen b'chitim? No. All melachos acheros, no, not. עוד פעם, כתוב תוכן. Rashi אומר, I take one and I make it into pieces. But if you cutesh, why call it tochen? What's the melachah called tochen? ... לא מבין, זה לא תוכן, זה כותש. What are you talking about, the Rashi? This is a kasha the Miri asks. No. No, no, no, it's simple. Very simple. Why is it a kasha? When you chotech big pieces, that's called lachtoch. When you rip it into a thousand little pieces, what's that called? Tochen, like grinding, no? That's the translation, grinding. Tochen is not grinding. Tochen is when I chop something into a thousand little pieces, that's called tochen. That's the question. When I squash a banana, was I tochen the banana? According to the Rach, I was tochen. That's the kasha. What are you saying? מי, ולאי, ולאי תחנת, לא תחנת. I want everybody to take a look at the Agudas Maimoni. Yeah? Perek aleph, halacha yud ches. Got it? Agudas Maimoni, perek aleph, halacha yud ches. Go. We'll see. We'll see. Yeah, got it? Good. Agudas Maimoni, between gimel and sof sefta. Go ahead, look it up, read. Perek tet-vav, halacha gimel in sof sefta. Go ahead. Who's reading? Waiting. Who's reading? Yes, halacha tet-vav. Go ahead, Nu. Perek tet-vav, sorry, halacha yud gimel. Go ahead, Nu. Perek tet-vav... halacha yud gimel. ...chalitz ... Yeah, yeah, Nu. ...נותן לתוכה חומץ ושמן ... אלא ... וממשח את המיטה ונותן לתוכה חרדל ... בערב שבת מביא דבש ונותן לתוכה. Avu mrasek hu b'yad sofakin, v'eis hapror, v'eino chosheish. Now, emraskim dvela, gragros vcharuvim, lifnei zekeinim b'Shabbos. Avu mrasek hu b'yad sofakin, v'eis hapror, v'ein chosheish. Now, comes out, the halacha, how we pasken. The sefer says you're allowed to take—let's say an old man, he can't eat—so you're allowed to take it and chop it up to him, l'rasek. So what's l'rasek? It means to make it smashed. So the question is, it's mashma from here, she'emaraskin. The sefer, emaraskin dvela. That's clearly, emaraskin dvela, the gragros vcharuvim lifnei zekeinim. The question is, is that tarkovetkach? Is that tarkovetkach? No, it's not tarkovetkach. Honestly, you just told me dafka silka, right? Rishonim bring down some hold there's never by peiros, by food, there's never tochen. Tosafos mechadesh that there's—

He's talking by what? By food. He becomes sick. Four sick people. You're doing treif things because he's sick. You're taking a tevel, and you're taking... And... You don't do this on Shabbos. I thought you just said tochen is only by food. Did you just say that? It has to be either darko b'kach or it has to be unedible any other way. People eat charuvim. People eat dveilos. He's sick. This guy is sick. He can't do it. Chazanis says, what do you do with the tochsefta? Amar li, he says that we pasken like by peiros. There's no halacha of tochen by peiros. Yeah, that's it. What is it, halacha what? Chamdaal. Right, that's what. Read Chamdaal. Yeah, that's it. That's it. Asur farei peiros. You're not doing mefarek peiros. That's what I wanted to... I just told you that you hold this by peiros also. This Tosafta is a raya to this ... minyan, right? That's told by Shas, peiros also. If you look, like Tosfos, what does Tosfos argue on the Tosefta? Gemara. So, Tosafos, read it. I want you to come. This is very important. Read it. It's very strange, right? You have to answer unbelievable questions. At the end of this shiur, you should have to answer questions. That's the question. That's what we're asking. Are you allowed to make fruit salad on Shabbos? ... According to ... you're allowed. You're not. According to ... you're allowed. Unless it depends on how you learn maybe now. According to the Ritva, mutar, right? Because since you're allowed to eat it anyway, so it becomes mutar. What does ...? ... says clearly, peiros come ... halachah ... Even by peiros, he argues on Tosafos. Where does he get it from, this chazon issue? He got it from this Tosefta. Read the Tosefta. End of ... Yud gimmel, the end of halachah yud gimmel. Tosefta, Yud gimmel. The question is, I thought there's no tochen b'shar ochlin. This, according to ... maymini, says the Chazon Ish, that's where he comes from. But that's not called tochen. Never tochen. No one ever makes kemach with his hands, right? It's like a cake. What's the question? According to Tosafos, why do you do the Tosefta? Says Chazon Ish one teretz. No? Say it. Say it, my boy. What? Says Chazon Ish, ... zayin. No? I don't believe the Chazon Ish. Nope. Nope. Nope. One word. Difference is one word. What is Taisis talking about? No? What did you just say? Who said you were not wrong? I said, I said, wait. That's not what I said. Wait. I said wait. That's what you were trying to bring out. Exactly. Says the Chazon Ish, it's not a stira. Taisis is talking about the issue of techinah. Techinah is davka by what? By sukkah, not by shar ... Different process called ... We couldn't care less. Darka, lo darka, it's ... ... ...

Now, that banana shop. Risuk is worse than. Say, say it's good. What do you see? You see, ... Talk to him. Talk to him. What was the ...? ... ketisa is not tochen. So, who said ketisa is tochen? Ketisha is worse than tochen, because ... Tochen, you're right. Tochen has special halachos. Risuk is worse. Why is risuk worse? Why is risuk worse? Don't talk to me. ... Yeah? You listening? The Tosefta says allowed or not allowed? Not allowed. Tosfos says allowed. Tosfos says the only ... The answer is ... tochen. ... This ... risuk, ... different ... ... is a lot worse than tochen. Tochen means ... Risuk is not ... Why? ... Tosefta. I created something new. ... I made now. I made a different thing. I made a yesur chadash, you hear? What's forget cutting gufim mechalakim, it's not always asur. It depends if it's darko bekach or not. There's klalim to it. Risuk is after the pasa. I think it is you go after the maaseh. What is in the ...? What is in the ...? Says the Chassidic, I'm telling you right now, risuk here is worse than tochen, because risuk yotzer toch davar chadash. Risuk, he says, is mamash toch, like mamash like toch. Tochen is av melachah, you hear? Wait. What is the ...? No, say it better. By techinah, there's a way of cutting and not making up wide pieces. By risuk, once you smash it, smash it, it's asur, that's it. There's no way. That's the Chazon Ish. What is the ...? What is the ...? The ... says, even the tochsa'ah has to come al yedei the pe'ulah of tochen. Again, again, let's skip. One sheetah holds we're makpid on the ... on the ... on the ... tochen. The other sheetah holds we're makpid on what? On the tochsa'ah. The ... holds that the tochsa'ah has to be al yedei this maaseh. If it's not al yedei maaseh tochen, it's not. Because that's kasher. Emes, yaf kotesh. Emes, asisa kemach, aval zulasai al yedei techinah. That's right. That's right. That's right. What? No. No. That's right, according to Rama to Toladanu. Mechatech hirakot toladan. Who's on the chadash? He's saying, unbelievable, you know. He's asking on the Rach, even you, Rach, that says that we're talking about kotesh, I still don't agree with you. Why? L'maaseh, you made something new. Bisloi, if you don't learn kotesh, then you say, you know what, Miri, you didn't make anything new. You're saying that the Rach, he did make something new. He's bringing the Rach. Uv'chol zot hu sho'el al haRach, ma hu sho'el al haRach? Harei chazakah tzodek hu asah yoter garua mitochen. Ken, afilu chadash yatzarta has to be al yedei tochen. The only thing that we say needs some chadash, what asur? Kemach al yedei techinah. If somehow you were able to make kemach shelo al yedei techinah, l'divrei... Miri. Let's say you were able, according to the Rach, the chadash says it's worse. We're talking about ממש, hismamesh tochen, ma pirush shel tochen? Asiti kemach, says Miri. No. Asiti al yedei tochen kemach.

That's called k'tochen. Even pshat in toichen is asiti toichen. What if pshat is asiti kemach? What if pshat is asiti kemach and it's tochen? The meiri is saying, and the issur is not lasot kemach. The issur is lasot kemach. If, let's say, chemically, chemically, you would be able to make kemach shelo al yedei techinah, that's called k'tochen, because that's another type of... I don't know. Let's say, if let's say there was a way, you hear? Well, that's the type of techinah then. That's grinding. V'lo yetzuya without the massive grinding. I don't know the case. You would be able to make kemach, would be mutar, according to the... because that's asiti kemach. That's what he's trying to say. Afilu kodesh, hagam shehu asiti tochen, machpatli, סוף סוף יש לי התוצאה חדשה, I have kemach. That's what the Chazon Ish is saying, it's worse. The meiri is saying, I know it's worse, but it has to be al yedei tochen. That's the machlokes. For good reading, Ayin Ritva. Ayin Ritva. Every Ritva takes apart every line. Ayin gimel, ayin daled. He has different types of food, minei ochlin, different foods. What's the halacha? The halacha is, borer v'ochel, borer u'meniach. He picks and he eats. Borer, he picks, u'meniach, and he puts down. Meniach is to put down. Put it down, put it down. Borer, okay? Borer u'meniach. Borer, v'shusi. V'lo yivror, v'lamaaseh shoneh borer, v'im birer chayav chatos. So this is a tongue twister, obviously, right? Borer v'ochel, borer u'meniach. Lo yivror, v'im yivror chayav chatos. Don't drink and don't drink. You're not allowed to drink, and if you drink, you're chayav. Make sense? Let's see the Gemara. Says the Gemara, Mai ka amar? What are you talking about? Mai ka amar? What are you saying over here? Mai ka amar? Says the Gemara, Amar Ula, first pshat. Ula says like this: Hachi ka amar: borer v'ochel l'bo bayom. You're allowed to pick for what? L'bo bayom. You're allowed to make borera psoles from ochel l'bo bayom. Yeah, that's right, l'bo bayom. According to Ula, l'bo bayom it's mutar. For that, we'll soon see what it means. We're not going to say it in short. Simply it means l'bo bayom, for that day. V'im — only psoles, ochel from psoles is mutar. It says psoles from ochel l'bo bayom. Says the Gemara, like this. You have it? You got it? You got it? He knows it by heart. Says the Gemara, U'lemachar, right? Borer v'ochel, okay, borer v'ochel l'bo bayom, u'borer u'meniach l'bo bayom. You're allowed to even be borer u'meniach l'bo bayom. Put it down as long as you have in mind to l'bo bayom to eat it. Put it down. You borer the psoles, leave it till later. U'lemachar lo yivror. But tomorrow, lo yivror, v'im birer chayav chatos. So that's the first shita. L'bo bayom, everything is mutar. Makes sense. Fine. Maskif lav Chizda. What is it? Were they ... libai Bayam? ... Those are ... Why is he ...? No, no, no. ... That's not—he's good. You know, he's good. We'll get back to it. Tzadik, we'll get back to it. What was that melacha in this Mishnah? Was it libai Bayam? Were they ...? Not forget about Shabbos. Were they ... libai Bayam, or they were ... lemachar? So, l'cheira libai Bayam. So what's the heter libai Bayam? So then the kasha, the opposite. So those that are matir, why are they matir? Either way, however you learn what happened in the Mishnah, right, however you learn there was the Mishnah, why is that not a diyun, an issue, when it comes to bayir? All right, we'll see in the Rishonim a little bit. You have to see what the nekudah of bayir libai Bayam is, what the heter is. Now, comes along the Gemara. The Gemara says, Maskif la Rav Chizda: mutar laafot libai Bayam? Hey, no heter. ... libai Bayam.

Shabbos, ... lunch. Why does it speak bishul? That's your question? No, not ... Why did you example bishul? Why could he say ...? No, that's not my question. What's your question? The whole thing of bishul is coming from ... Oh, that's the same thing. We spoke about it. Let's focus is off the mission. It's ... No, but he wants to know why he said ... Okay, let's say. The officer says the Gemara, mutar l'ba bayom. What is ba bayom? Kind of the heter is ba bayom, because today it's mutar. Says the Gemara, v'chi mutar l'vashel l'ba bayom? Ela amar Rav Chisda, borer v'ochel pachot mi'kishiur. You borer v'ochel less than the shiur. The shiur is the grogeres that we say, pachot mi'grogeres. Rashi, less than a grogeres. Hard word to say, ki-grogeres. You guys say it. You have an easier time saying it. We have a hard time saying it. Ki-grogeres. Ki-grogeres. Okay. U'kishiur lo yevarech? Rabbi Meir chayav chatat. Matkilah Rabbi Yochanan: v'chi mutar lefo pachot mi'kishiur, chati shiur asur min haTorah? What are you telling me? Pachot mi'kishiur mutar? Oh, pachot — you know what? Yom Kippur, it's not so bad, pachot mi'kishiur, ... half. ... half shiur asur min haTorah. What, half shiur? Half shiur is asur in everything on min haTorah. Chametz, Shabbos, ... What do you want from a choleh, but a ... person, a choleh? Because they told me ... Because it's only... my idea of why chatzi shiur is asur min haTorah. Anything. You know that slapped-up chatzi? Chatzi means pachot me... ...chayav. Chiyuv. Chatas, whatever the onesh is, no? You're not chayav an onesh. But it's a best example: basar b'chalav. You're allowed to put a little milk into the... ...it's asur. ...careful, yeah? I don't know. Ela, Rabbi Yosi, yeah? You're listening? Ela, Rabbi Yosi. Ela, Rabbi Yosi, boirer v'ochel b'yad. The point is yad. There you go. And if you notice, there's a little aleph over there. You know why? Because those that maybe can't understand the Gemara, at least ללמוד the aleph-beis. ...Aleph. ...Here we get ... ma'aseh. Ma lo yivror b'yad, yeah? There we go. Borer u'meniach b'yad, b'kanon u'v'tamchui lo yivror, v'im בירר פטור אבל אסור, u'v'nafah u'v'kברה lo yivror, v'im בירר חייב חטאת. That's why he's changing it. Borer v'ochel b'yad. Because b'kanon uv'tavchulah yivror and wall, v'im bider patur. Asur, u'menafel b'kivra lo yivror. ... kanui tamchuy ... No, ... Kanui, kanui. ... Big plate, big plate. ... It helps the bread up, but it's not the main keli. Kanafa v'kivra. Kivra is like a sifting thing. A mash ... keli made for ... What's a kalfan? ... is kind of a tamchuy. Maybe because it's not a ... derech, or maybe it's not ... Me'al, me'al. ... He's telling me it's ... because it had ... to use those peeler on Shabbos. The problem is that it's not a ... Yes, the thing is, you could be ... is it's not a borer. No, you're taking off from the top. You're not borer. ... Could be ...

I don't know. Right? This is surely mutar. What? What? You have ... mutar? What, use a peeler on Shabbos? Big mistake. Maybe I didn't understand you. I ... like I said, because it's a keli. What about the can opener? What's wrong with a can opener? It's a borer. It's a borer over here. Why was knife not allowed? Because it's melachah, it's not the derech to do it that way. What? Okay, we'll see that halachah. Not over here. Okay, ... Okay, let's go weiter. Yes, which one do you want me to explain? Borer ochel b'yad. Borer u'meniach is also b'yad. The borer u'meniach is good as long as it's b'yad. B'yad is no problem of borer. But if he does it b'kanon u'tamchui, which is kelim ... I don't know, type of plate. He has a picture of it here. Show him the picture. Yeah, this tamchui, this ... Beautiful, beautiful. Look at these pictures. Where's the kanui? No, you got kanon over there. Ah, tamchui. I don't know, the kitzur. No, the kitzur, these are the kelim. Go ahead. The kitzur ... You ever go in front of Bais ... Chaim, you see those big pots and ... over there? That's kanon, tamchui. So ... Sunday, you saw big pots over there. Like the Chinese wearing their head, that's the type of pasuk. Borer v'ochel, ochel. You hear? Ela amar Rav... I'm sorry. Aval asur, b'dafka kivan lo yivror, v'yihyeh chayav chatat. Matztiv l'Rav Nuna: midi kaneh v'tamchu ketani? Where did you see the word kaneh v'tamchu? How did that come into the picture בכלל? Mat, chatuv kaneh v'tamchu, mutar, asur. Michi lek? Michi lek? Who told you that kaneh v'tamchu is mutar? Where did you get it from? There's no part of the Mishnah that talks about kaneh v'tamchu. Ela amar Rav Nuna, pshat like this: borer v'ochel, ochel mitoch hapsolet. That's the first time he mentions אוכל מתוך פסולת. What's the heter? Ochel mitoch solet. Borer u'meniach, again, is only ochel, because that's not borer. But if it'll be פסולת מתוך אוכל, lo yivror, v'yihyeh chayav chatat. So what is the case that's mutar, when it's always ochel מתוך פסולת, but פסולת מתוך אוכל is asur? Matkif la Abaye: midi ochel מתוך פסולת ketani? Where did you see ochel מתוך פסולת? It says borer פסולת מתוך אוכל, right? Who said it means ochel מתוך? Maybe it means פסולת מתוך אוכל. It says borer. It says borer. Don't say how. How do you know it means one way and not the other? Ela amar Abaye: borer v'ochel l'alter. Like it says, borer v'ochel is l'alter. פסולת מתוך אוכל, as long as it's l'alter, right away. Borer u'meniach, ochel l'alter. Why? Borer u'meniach? That's same meal, right? Not when eating two minutes, I'm eating. Yeah. U'leba bayom lo yivror. So we'll see, we'll see, we'll see. That's already in the pesukim. U'leba bayom lo yivror. For that day, you should welcome for follow, follow, follow, follow, follow, eh? What's the next word? Ooh, what's the next word? Oh, tremendous, you're quick on your feet. Le'im birer naasa, kiboireh l'oitah. Then it's like he did it for later, v'chayav chatas. Kitzur, amru Rabbanan, kami d'Rava, amar lehu, Shapir amanachnei. Nachmeini's the best. Nachmeini, Abaye. Then the best. Abaye. And that's how we pasken. A little daled over there? We do, it's a mix. We'll soon see how the Rishonim work it out. Obviously you're going to see that the Rishonim mix and match. It's going to be already a whole chadgadya here. Why? Because we pasken about the... We pasken the yad part. We pasken, tzarich l'tochocho is asur, tochocho mutar. We pasken l'alter. What? Oh, you're allowed to be boirer, Abaye, Abaye. Mutar, mutar, mutar, mutar, mutar, mutar. Okay, kitzur, let me teach you how they teach it in Eretz Yisrael. In Eretz Yisrael they teach it ayil, like a ram, ayil.

What does ... stand for? Bitach mutar. Yud and ... what? What is yud? Yad loi keili. Louder. Lamed and v'lo lachar zman. So ayin is mutar, and if it's not ayin, it's aser. What's ayin again? Ochel mitoch psolet. Yud, yad v'loi keili, and lamed v'loi lachar zman. And we're going to learn a bit. By the way, the sefer muktzah, the sefer on borer, you know what it's called? Who knows what it's called? Ayin Mishulash. That's what it's called. That's the name of the sefer that brings all of the ... psakim. It's called Ayin Mishulash. Ayin Mishulash. The ... we're going to come in Monday morning—sorry, Sunday, Sunday morning—and we're going to start digging, digging. Okay? You got the Gemara, you're going to learn it clearly. You're going to know all the different... Okay, ... We made a diyuk already. ... is not here. ... Okay. Says the Gemara: ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Kasivla, the Gemara puts it together. It says the Gemara that the emes, what? It's the ara domeh. But since they were in the Mishkan, the Gemara brings it down. Let's see Rashi. Rashi wants to translate, what does the word hainu mean? What's the meaning, hainu? Makomah hainu. Hey nihu. That's the bottom Rashi over there, hainu. Hey nihu. Kelomar, demaflig lehu tana matnisin l'shlosh. The tana of the Mishnah is dividing into three separate melachos: melacha, melacha, achas ten, demafrish ochel mipsoles. Very, very important Rashi here, very important Rashi. Rashi learns in all these cases, you are mafrish ochel mipsoles. But the emes, psoles min ha'ochel. Look at the lashon of the Rashi: hakula melacha achas hein, demafrish ochel mipsoles. I thought all the cases were cases where you're mafrish the psoles from the ochel, because that's the issur, not ochel mipsoles. Right from Rashi, just—again, is the psoles from ochel or ochel mipsoles? You're going to answer me. Psoles from ochel. It's always psoles min ha'ochel. So why does Rashi say, kula melacha achas hein, demafrish ochel mipsoles? Unless Rashi means demafrish ochel min hapsoles shebo, something like that. It still doesn't make sense. He doesn't say. He says mi. You hear the diyuk? Because ochel min hapsoles. Rashi, what are you talking about? Why is always the pshat of melachah? If I put the ... not patur, mutar asur. So what does Rashi mean, kulam melachah, achas hein, u'mafrish, ochel min hapturos? Question number one that we have to address in the shiur. Now, if you take a look, Rashi in the Mishnah, and Rashi further on in the Gemara, Rashi in the Mishnah and Rashi in the Gemara tell us a different reason to be mechalek between zoreh, borer, and meraked. What is the chiluk? If you take a look at Rashi, Rashi says like this. In the Mishnah, hazoreh ... see the Rashi in the Mishnah, first Rashi. Do you have it? No, you have it? Right, what does Rashi say? Ruach, in the wind, right? Ruach in the wind. Okay. What about the meraked? Says Rashi — I'm sorry, borer, solet ... this is here. Meraked, binafah. Nafah is that keli is the utensil. So the Rishonim are medayek in Rashi. Rashi mashma that the chiluk between zoreh, borer, and meraked is what?

One of them is the ruach. The other one is the yad. The third one is meraket. It's a shinui avoydah itself, right? It's a different type of work. One is the yad, one is the ruach, and the other one is... You see the Rashi? It's open Rashi. The ruach. I'll show you the Rashi. Rashi. When I show you that Rashi, you learn that the chiluk is what? One is ruach, the other one is yad, and the third one is... You remember Rashi that I showed you, that Rashi says that what's the chiluk between borer and meraket? You remember the Rashi? Rashi says one is by... by... sand. No one said—I want to remember the Rashi. One second. Don't about it. Here, here. No, no, no, no, no. Which one? So that's... Here, Rashi. V'lo dami l'zoreh, ayin hei, very famous Rashi. Zoreh does Rashi. V'lo dami... Right? Here, let me read for you the Gemara just so you'll see clearly what the Gemara wants. The Gemara says like this. Here: Lafukei mi'deRabbi Yehuda. When we say there's lamed tes melachos, says the Gemara that's lafukei d'Rabbi Yehuda. Why? Because according to Rabbi Yehuda, there's more than lamed tes. Why? Says the Gemara: Tanya, Rabbi Yehuda mosif et ha-shovet v'ha-medakdek. Rabbi Yehuda adds on shovet and medakdek, which means he's meshaveh the shetzi b'karka, and he's medakdek, k'shemoteach chut ha-arev, in other words, within the process of making... Living, making a bed, there's two more things that he's mosif. Rabbi Yehuda is mosif, according to him, adim lachot are there? Forty-one. According to Rabbi Yehuda, it's forty-one. Rashi, shovet, mishaveh hasheti. Rashi, shovet. Mishaveh hasheti b'kafta. Straighten it out. It's the sheti and areg. Sheti is the chut. The chut, sheti and areg, that's how you make a cloth, right? Sheti is one way, areg is the other. Sheti is crisscross, right? So I guess when you straighten out at the end, right, that's the melachah, straightening out, right? Shovet. And also, he's put together also mitaktek. He put that in also. Kitzur, what is that? That's all two more melachos, says the Gemara. But what do we hold? We hold no. Harei hu bichlal meisach, and the taktik, harei hu bichlal oreg. One is including meisach, which is the pole. You know, you know what the empty— let me tell you. Meisach is when you have the two poles and you put it around the pole, right? Because what's going to happen is it's going to go up and down, and you go across. As you go up and down with these poles, then you put the strings across. Right, and the poles make it go up and down. One pole goes up, the other one goes down. Down, up, down, up, down, up. The string, and you're able to go. Okay. One is included in meisach, and one is included in oreg. So how many do we have? Thirty-nine. Chacham's asking the question, if you hold that you could include, so why don't we include already zoreh, borer, meraked all into one? Same way we include these things into what? Into oreg, and into meisach. Rashi already includes zoreh, borer, and merakeh all into one. Says Rashi, no. V'lo dami lizoreh, borer, u'merakeh. It's there, the kashin. It's there, the terurah. It's there, the kamah. One is is what? One is in the kashin. No, no, the kashin is the junk. It's the shaft. The thing that it comes, right? The covering, like the covering. One is the terurah from the stone, and one is the kamah. One is with kamah. It comes out, l'chuda, this is stirah in Rashi. And all the Rishonim and Acharonim discuss this stirah. And one here Rashi is mechalek between zoreh, borer, that one is b'ruach, one is b'keli, and one is b'yad, the Mishnah. And on one hand, Rashi explains that the difference between zoreh, borer, merakeh is different. Then we spoke about the toza'ah. One is the kashin. One is now you have without terurah, and the other one is what that you have without... You're ready, you went down. Because things just took out over here. It's, for example, by sowing, you're using this thing, so that's why by... Say the tiny drop that, you're almost right. So many Rishonim explain that it's not a stirah in Rashi. Rashi in the Mishnah learns that...

The emet. This is the sefer between Zara Bar and Merakeh: kli, yad, that's all the difference. Rashi means over here is, lamah chilku etzeh, the shlosha melachos? Why they divide into three melachos? On that the answer is because it's three different things. Over here, right, even though the machshimah difference—meaning what? The difference between them is what? Zeh b'kli, zeh b'yad, zeh b'ruach, and a chanaf. But you want to know why Chazal come to three different— the answer is because of this. Because this is kemach me'akash, this is kemach me'tzrorot, and this is kemach, kemach naki v'lo kemach meruder. The question is, why do we divide into three? The Gemara says the reason why we divide into three, even though, oreg, we don't divide into different parts, because the oreg beged echad, it's all one thing. But here, since it's three different things, the totzaot are different, therefore we divide into three. But you want to know what the— the melachah is not zeh b'kash. Someone's like, for example, somebody—I showed in the mefarshim—beautiful. What happens if a person would take b'yad, and someone would go and he would b'ruach, b'ruach, or better yet, let's say he would take b'yad, b'yad, and he would take out this kash. What would happen? B'yad would take out the kash, because that is patur. No, but what would it be? B'yad, kash. What would it be? What would it be? I mean, would be better. Wouldn't be a ... would be better. Sounds like this: you have to say, say the mefaresh. Now when Rashi says this is the kash, he doesn't mean that the only pshat is the kash, because if it would be better, it'd be a kash. It wouldn't be better. It'd also be better. Rashi doesn't mean that if this is kash, it's better. If it's not a kash, it's better. And if it's better, whatever the person would go and be merakech ... he would take the ... and he would be merakech. What would it be? It would be ... little stones, little pebbles. Of course it'd be ... Rashi never meant to say what. Rashi, ... she saw the chiluk between the melachos is what? Zeh b'kash, zeh b... Just to tell me why we need the three different melachos. Why do we have to divide into three melachos? The Torah says there's three different gufim. Oreg zeh guf echad, komes nichnas b'oreg zeh guf echad, pozea ... shlosha gufim. It's three different things, okay? So someone asked you, l'maaseh, according to Rashi, what's the difference between zoreh, borer, and merakech? The answer is zoreh is the ruach, borer is the ... and merakech is the ... the ... Comes along the Tosfos, says Rashi, it's a matmiah, what you're saying, it's a matmiah, it's a peshat matmiah. Is borer b'yad or b'keli? He had his ... He had his ... Okay, the opposite. If you want to tell me, comes along the Tosfos ... comes along the Tosfos ... it's a Rashi, it's a Tosfos, Kuf lamed ches. He said, I don't understand. If you take a look at the Gemara, the Gemara says clearly. If you give it b'yad, then it's mutar. Aval b'kli, chayav chatat. Remember the Gemara? Let's see a little bit of the Gemara inside, so cute. Says the Gemara like this. Ela amar Rav Yochanan. You see the little aleph in the Gemara? Remember I showed you the little aleph in the Gemara means we pasken like this, right? So what are we paskening? Ela amar Rav Yochanan: borer v'ochel b'yad, yeah. Borer v'meniach b'yad, yeah. As long as it's b'yad, it's mutar. Kanu u'metamchui lo yivror, v'im birer patur, aval asur. Those are plates. It's not meyuchad for borer, but it's a shinui. Now, v'im birer u'meniach l'kivra lo yivror, v'im birer chayav chatat. You see that? What's the ikar borer? The ikar borer is b'yad is mutar, b'kli, the ikar borer is b'kli. She's in the Gemara. Rashi, you want to tell me a mashal of Tosafot? You want to know the difference between borer b'marak and b'kli versus Tosafot? I'm sorry, says Rashi, macha'einkei borer b'yad. Rashi, Rashi, Rashi. ... Yes, you could. You try. Over here it's talking about b'yad when it's mutar, when you're taking...

Out the ochos from psul, but when you're saying out the psul from rochah, אפילו b'yad is asur. Huh? No, we're talking about... איכו. ... By the ... Shabbos. I can't hear. What, what, what, what, what? You have to say that, Rashi. Rashi, you're not saying that. What the— think a minute. ... But that's the nafkamina. That's the whole— if you want to make a nafkamina between borer and meraked, you can't come and tell me because borer is b'yad. Borer makes the kli. ... Borer ... also asur. Borer ... is not the case of borer. Borer is the kli. ... What you saying? Good, I'm telling you, the melachah— if you want to know where the melachah of borer is, it's not borer b'yad. Borer is the kli. ... ... That's the difference. ... Now you're chapping, now you're understanding. ... says that the difference between borer and what is b'yad, and the meraked is b'kli, says Tosafos, ... What are you talking about? Where's the Rashi in the Mishnah? Where's the Rashi in the Mishnah? ... Rashi in the Mishnah. Oh, you're not chayav chatos. Oh, you like. You like. You like ... You like. Why are you not chayav chatos? Because ika bayur b'kli. Ika bayur b'kli. According to רבי, you're not chayav. You only chayav with kli. Kli. ממש. According to? According to? According to? לא ... בכלי. If you want to tell me what is the ikar melacha, hilchos borer meraket, don't say b'yad, because it's not true. The ikar is the kli. Borer is the kli. This is Tosfos in קמא מלאכה. Comes along Tosfos and says, אם כן, אזל מאי היתרא ... מחלוקת בין בורר למרקד? It's an unbelievable thing. Listen to what he says. ... Right? He doesn't agree with ... He said, Don't come and say yad and kli. ... שניהם בכלי. שניהם בכלי. No, no, no, no, no, no. He says like this. What, what, what? Don't say ... You know what? Let me tell you what he says. Yes. ... בורר ... ... Why are you not chayav for that? Because borer ... ... You're not chayav. It's b'yad or it's b'yad or you're not chayav. It's not a kli. That's how you mutar. It's not the ... melacha. The ... melacha is the kli. This is a film. A borer. But why we cannot say?