Hilchos Tekias Shofar: Shevarim-Teruah in One Breath or Two, Hefsek, and Minhag

Transcript

Today, rabosai, after discussing in the previous shiurim, we discussed how to make a tekiah and how to make a shevarim and how to make a teruah. Tonight, be'ezras Hashem yisbarach, we're going to discuss a big sugya within tekiah sheifer, and that is neshima achas, shtei neshimos. Should tekiah sheifer be with one breath, with two breaths? The application, lahalacha, the differences that come out from this, the safek if it's neshima achas, shtei neshimos, and how l'maaseh do we do? What's the minhag l'maaseh, halacha l'maaseh? So we'll start with the tekiah, and then we'll get to the shevarim, the teruah, and then the shevarim-teruah. The tekiah itself, does the tekiah itself require that it should be b'neshima achas, or maybe one could blow a tekiah b'shtei neshimos? So if you take a look in Shulchan Aruch, in siman taf-kuf-tzadik se'if daled, there it says that the shevarim, the shevarim, blown b'neshima achas. So here, rabosai, see the mechaber, that the shevarim are blown b'neshima achas. Mashma, dafka the shevarim. There's no mention of the tekiah, and soon we'll discuss there's also no mention of the teruah, that the teruah has to be b'neshima achas. So the question becomes: is it shevarim and the chiddush is shevarim, and teruah and tekiah is given that that has to be b'neshima achas, or maybe shevarim is— Yotzei min haklal that only that needs to be b'neshimachas. But the tekiah and the teruah not. It doesn't say. There's no clear dictum. In English we call it a dictum in Shulchan Aruch that the tekiah has to be b'neshimachas. Hagam the pashut is that way. The pashut, since it has to be a kol echad, how else would it be done? And maybe that's why it's not brought down in Shulchan Aruch, because there's no chiddush. Since there's no chiddush in the tekiah being b'neshimachas, it's not mentioned. So we spoke that there are shittos like that. Good. I'm saying there are minhagim, but pashut our minhag is that we don't blow two kolos; we blow one kol tekiah. So mimeila, when the Shulchan Aruch speaks about the shevarim being b'neshimachas, so maybe there was no reason, no reason for the Shulchan Aruch to speak that the tekiah has to be b'neshimachas. And l'choira that's the pshat tovah, the pashut, and that is that the tekiah shouldn't be done b'neshimachas. The shevarim, the shevarim, I mean the truth, I was thinking, how would I taka make a tekiah with more than one neshimah? Is it shayach such a thing? I was thinking, I was trying it out in my mind today if it's shayach such a thing, to blow a tekiah and take in breaths on the side, you know, to blow from one and somehow to keep breathing from the other side of my lip. I don't know. I have to be me'ayin if there is such a thing. But al kol panim, let's say for argument's sake it doesn't sound like something that can be done, and therefore the Shulchan Aruch doesn't bring it. But avada, avada the tekiah has to be b'neshimachas. Okay, what about the shevarim, rabosai? Shvarim, you just learned. We just learned that the shvarim has to be b'neshima achas. So what about if a person makes not three shvarim, but four shvarim? He didn't make three; he made four. We learned that you can make four shvarim. So if he made three b'neshima achas, and he made the fourth one in a second neshima, is that a problem? Betzem, yotzei with three. Yotzei with three. A dilma, or maybe it ruins it. Yeah, maybe it's megarea. Once I wanted to make a fourth one, so that becomes the shvarim. So I have to be careful if I blow three, especially if I make a second neshima and then I blow another one, that's ziche like one out of the klal of the shvarim, and it's like a kol bifnei atzmo, and l'chayre, l'chayre, in shvarim it should be a problem, okay? Should be a problem. I don't see why not. I don't see why not. It's like the cup. I don't have the Shulchan Aruch Harav in my house, but the Shulchan Aruch Harav says that that's a problem, that if a person blows four shvarims and one of them is out of the neshima, he blows the second, it becomes a problem. Good. So this is part of the shvarim has to be b'neshima.

Neshimachas is the three and the what, and the fourth one also. Okay. What happens if he didn't do the shvarim b'neshimachas? Shteit doch in Shulchan Aruch, habaisai, that you have to. What happens if he didn't do it? So let's take a look at the Mishnah Berurah, siman taf-kuf tzadik, se'if katan tezayin. Says the, look at Mishnah Berurah: if a person didn't do the shvarim b'neshimachas, is it l'ikuva? Says the Mishnah Berurah, it's l'ikuva, so therefore you're not yotzei, okay? So, im yirtzeh Hashem, whoever blows, we'll see, we'll see who blows, but whoever blows should know that the shvarim has to be b'neshimachas, all three. We can soon learn what that means. We don't even know what neshimachas means. You think you said neshimachas. It's very complicated what the word neshimachas means. There's so many different ways to interpret that. Forgiven, for just to say that it's neshimachas, a breath, so all the shvarim have to be in the same breath. And we're learning that all four shvarim have to be, even if, say, four or five shvarim, they all have to be in the same breath. And the Mishnah Berurah is paskening that this is l'ikuva, that you're not yotzei if you don't—what?—if you don't do it. Okay. What happens if a person does a b'neshimachas, but he does it b'shtei koiches? What does that mean? That means that he stops. He's still holding in the same breath. Doo, doo, doo. So you did it as a— you know, in English we have syllables, right? You clap and you know it's another syllable. You know what actually a syllable is? It's koach sheini. It means that you're giving a second, a second tnuah. You're not giving it one after another. So let's just for argument's sake, even though I don't agree with that analogy and I don't agree that that's the same case. It's not exactly the koach echad, shtei koiches. After the sugya becomes clear, we'll see why I'm saying this. But let's just say for argument, just for beginners, for beginners of the sugya, so to speak, that syllable-wise, okay? So is it three syllables? Doo, doo, doo. Or is it doo, doo, doo, doo, doo? One syllable, koach echad. All right? So tell me, do you see anywhere in Shulchan Aruch any discussion about that? That's not a teruah? Ah, a good kasha. A good kasha, a frekteh good kasha. I heard someone do a teruah today. Yeah. Because he was trying to do this. He was trying to be a chacham. He was showing that you pasken teruahs are three. Ganz gut. Or he had no koach maybe from last night's slichos. Maybe he had no koach, so he did three teruahs. So what are you ta'inaing, Rameisha? How do you pasken? Hagaon R' Moshe paskens for me. Hagaon R' Moshe paskens for me. Does neshima achas exclude koach, shnei koiches, shalosh koiches? Or neshima achas means one breath with one syllable: doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo. Or it's doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo. Three syllables. All right, do, do, do, one syllable. Why would you taina? So there's a major Avnei Nezer about this. Avnei Nezer, in two places, in siman tof mem gimel os hei, and in siman tof mem daled os chaf, says the Avnei Nezer, the neshim achas requires that it should also be v'kayach echad. Not like we do? Not, I don't know who says we. Who's we? We do. When you say we, if you only know the word we, in every we there's three syllables. There's the W twice and the E twice. Klal Yisrael is so diverse that when you say the word we, you have many, many people, many groups within the we. In the achdus, there's aleph, ches, daled, vav, and taf. And I would say actually more like taf. There's like 400 different groups in the word achdus, okay? Lefi the minyan of achdus, okay. B'kitzur, the Avnei Nezer paskens that it has to be b'kayach echad. Is that likuvah? Is that not likuvah? I'm not so sure. I don't have the Avnei Nezer at home to look it up again, but my memory just is that it was l'chatchila, not b'diavad. I don't have the Avnei Nezer at home, nor do I definitely not have it here in our new shul, but—

Maybe one day we will have an Avnei Nezer, im yirtzeh Hashem. I rather want to talk to you about that. I have a shtickel mahalach, but all right, we'll see afterwards. Al kol panim, al kol panim, rabosai, koyach echad is the Avnei Nezer. So remember, neshima achas means neshima achas, and syllable-wise, koyach echad. Are you supposed to stop between each shever? Let's say it's neshima achas, and let's say it's not koyach echad, but should you make a noticeable stop between each shever? Meaning, you could blow a shofar like this: That's three. Or you could blow in three syllables: Or you could blow... The Moedim Zmanim says, the Rishonim is mashma that you have to make stops after each shever. One must make stops after each shever. Stops. Yeah. Which means he's taking the many koiches to a new level, that not only it's not supposed to be b'neshima achas—oh, I'm sorry, I don't mean that. I'm sorry—not only is there a sugya of neshima achas, that's what I meant. There's also a sugya of neshima achas. There's a sugya called koyach echad or shtei koiches, and then there's b'hefsek. It has to be with stops, noticeable stops, okay? Choirah, right? I mean, that's definitely—I mean, not the Avnei Nezer. Avnei Nezer doesn't want, you know, much. I'm saying it's one step further. Even if you'll be two koiches... Should there be noticeable stops? Okay. The Avnei Nezer I just told you holds not like that, and the Chazon Ish also paskens. Now, I don't say he's saying about koiches, because you have to really read the Avnei Nezer well, and you have to read the Chazon Ish well, and it's not so clear that they're both talking about the same thing. But they definitely say that the stops is not required. So the Chazon Ish and Avnei Nezer says no stopping. So even if it's going to be, let's say, not necessarily b'koach echad, but it's doo doo doo, okay? You don't doo doo doo, okay? This is the Avnei Nezer and the Chazon Ish. In English, I wrote here on my notes, is it rapid or stops? You see, rapid or stops. Okay. So the maidim is manim, based on the Rishonim, and he goes into very into detail that it has to be, and it has to be clear each shever for itself. If not, it sounds like teruah, v'chulei v'chulei v'chulei. Okay. Is the halacha so by tashat as well as tashrat? L'choira it shouldn't make a difference. All shvarim are whatever they are, and if there's a halacha that shvarim have to be separated, so then shvarim have to be separate, yeah? Many of the later Acharonim that we buy their books, Baruch Hashem, they write nice sefarim, Acharonim, yeah, they write nice stuff. Many want to prove that technically by tashat you shouldn't stop, but by tashrat there's no problem if you stop. Why? Listen to their shtikel Torah. Since the safek is the shvarim and the teruah, might be the teruah, might be the shvarim. The shever and the teruah is whatever the teruah is, and there's one shita we're going to learn later that holds that you're allowed to stop. And as a matter of fact, not only you're allowed to stop, but you're supposed to stop in the shemachas between the shvarim and the teruah. So that means the genuchei ganach and yelulei yalil has no problem with stops in the middle. So therefore, even within the genuchei ganach and within the yelulei yalil, you could stop and stop and stop. Chashuve sefarim write this. It's nice Torah. It's not muchach. If you—I went through it years ago, and it's a lot of literature which clutters the mind and not necessarily it's muchach, okay? You can see a chiluk between the shvarim and the teruah, right? The shvarim-teruah maybe needs a stop in the middle, but it doesn't mean that the shvarim—it's not muchach that the shvarim of the shvarim-teruah you could also stop, okay, rabosai? So we have over here a shita mechudeshes, which is based on throwing millions of mareh mekomos at you, that if the shvarim and the teruah is allowed to have a hefsek in the middle, so hua hadin, hua hadin, the shvarim of the shvarim-teruah is allowed to have a hefsek. Take my word for it. It's not muchach. Not even two sentences worth of it, okay? Now, and I don't want to—

Say who says it, because then you'll say that they're right and I'm wrong, so what should I do? So let's just leave it at that. Okay. There's a Shitas HaMeiri, which is mechudash, mechudash, mechudash. The Meiri speaks in his minhag, minhag etzlam yemos haRabbanim haGedolim. So I don't know who the Rabbanim Gedolim are. I don't know. And the Meiri says Rabbanim Gedolim, maybe he means the Rambam, the Ramban. I don't know who the Rabbanim Gedolim are. It just reminds me of a very cute story. My grandfather was a rav in America. He was the, what do you call that, the Skan— no, no, no, Skan is a vice president. He was the vice president of the Agudas HaRabbanim under Rav Moshe for about 12 years. Rav Moshe was the president of the Agudas HaRabbanim. My grandfather was vice president. And then somebody else took over, Rabbi Elberg, whatever, Kitzur. So when he was vice president, he was a big rav, you know, all the mayors came to him. I have all these pictures in my house of all the mayors, Lindsay and all these guys, they came to, you know, for votes. Okay, Kitzur. So when my grandfather was niftar, years and years later they wanted to put out a letter, Rav Poller, Rav Shmuel Birnbaum, something l'ilui nishmaso, to commemorate, whatever, very long story. Bottom line is the letter was dictated and brought to Rav Shmuel Birnbaum, and I was the one standing there when it was brought to Rav Shmuel Birnbaum. So Rav Shmuel reads it, and he goes and he says, Not enough. You didn't write enough about the Rav Shmuel. You have to write more. So I asked him, Vos zol men shraybn in yeshiva? What should we write? So he says, K'veiachol, it's not enough. So I said, Should we write that he was from the Gedolei Rabbanim in America? So right off the crack of the bat, Nein, nein, es iz kein geese kav, from zayn di Gedolei Rabbanim in America. He'd look at it as such a big ענין, ... in America, you know. ... in Europe, yeah. ... in Europe was a ... Torah. What's a ... in America? It's a very sharp line. I don't know if it's for public consumption, but it's as sharp as you can get. Okay. Now, rabosai, you know they say over that, ... What was a rav in America? A rav in America needed a Mishnah Berurah, and Rav Moshe Feinstein's telephone number. They ... In Europe you needed semicha, but in America you need a Mishnah Berurah, and today מסתמא קיצור of the Mishnah Berurah, and Rav Moshe Feinstein's telephone number. All right. So when the Meiri says, גדולי הרבנים, who is he referring to? ... the Rambam and the Ramban, v'chulei, v'chulei, v'chulei. Okay. Kitzur, he brings down that, na pshat, you're allowed to stop by the shvarim, but that you're mechuyiv, you're mechuyiv to stop by the shvarim between each one, b'neshima. You're supposed to stop. ... להפסיק בין השברים עצמם בנשימה, that that was their minhag, to bedavka stop. Blow, taking a breath. No, not like this. Meiri, shitas Meiri, not like this. This is based on the Rishonim, the Ramban, others, but we don't pasken like this. We don't pasken, but I'm mechuyiv to tell you that it exists, shitas haMeiri, the minhag. There was a minhag that fakert, not like this, that bedavka that they would stop in a sheima achas, not like this din in Shulchan Aruch. Okay. So now we've discussed that the tekiah is supposed to be b'neshima achas. We've also discussed what, rabosai, no, that the shevarim has to be b'neshima achas. And now, b'ezras Hashem yisbarach, we discussed that the teruah has to be b'neshima achas. No mention in Shulchan Aruch. Look, rabosai, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe my memory doesn't serve me well. Do you see anywhere that it says that it shouldn't be b'neshima achas? You see it? The note says not, but it doesn't mean anything, you know. Maybe the notes are wrong. No, right? You don't see it anywhere. Rabbi Yoel, what do you say? Rabbi Yoel is the chagadol bateirah. No, he is. Rabbi Yoel is gevaldik. Ah, Rabbi Yoel, you have no idea how good you are. That's the shevarim and the teruah. That's something else. But the teruah itself, no, you see it anywhere? You got your first name. What's his first name? Reb Tzvi. You see it anywhere? You see anywhere that the teruah... So either you could come and say, Vaiter, it's peshita. I don't know, is it not as peshita as the tekiah? By the tekiah I could hear that, you know, it's peshita. There's no reason to say that it has to be b'neshima achas.

But the truth is, ashtik lachidush, nein. Hakdav zayin, a din in Shulchan Aruch, just like the shvarim is a discussion, and it's noted that it's what, rabosai, it's noted that it has to be b'neshima achas, right? How do you make the diyuk? Let's see it. It says, the gimel shvarim utrua d'tashrat is— That's something else. The gimel, just the truah and the— Huh? It's mashma that shvarim of tashat and the truah of tarat does have to be b'neshima achas. Why does it have to speak out the shvarim utruah of tashrat? The truah of tarat doesn't need— What do you mean? Again, just show me what you're talking about. Aval gimel shvarim utruah. Utruah. No, he's talking about the gimel shvarim utruah between the two of them. He's going back on the— Aval gimel shvarim utruah. He's going on the shvarim-truah, that's what he means. Meaning between the shvarim and the truah, it doesn't have to be done b'neshima achas. He's talking about—yeah. Huh? Sachveisichni, yeah, you saw a shver about that? Who said? Yeah. Okay, okay. So, I agree with you. You can come and say maybe it's just as peshita as the tekiah, there's no reason to speak about it. Ata zeh. Ken doch lama. There's a reason why I like it. You know, there's a reason why I like it. Either the pshat is because by the tekiah, b'metzius it's not shayach, but by the truah, b'metzius it's shayach, so then it should have been in Shulchan Aruch. O dilma, it's a sevara dika zach. It kills the truah. It doesn't sound like truah anymore; it sounds like a shvarim if you stop in the middle. So maybe there's no reason, vaiter, to speak about the neshima achas. Yesh l'ayin, yesh l'ayin, but pashut. The pashut is that the teruah also needs to be, רבותי, בנשימה אחת. So I got this from the Shulchan Aruch Harav, seif daled, as well as in seif ches. He says, be'emes, you’re not yotzei. A person takes the teruah and he separates, you’re not yotzei. Yeah? A person separates the teruah, he’s not yotzei. Okay. This, rabosai, concludes the easy part of the sugya of neshima achas. It’s very easy to discuss if the tekiah needs to be בנשימה אחת, because pashut it’s almost impossible to be done, even if it was mutar, but it’s definitely pashut that you understand that pashut it’s not mutar anyway. The shevarim, all right, yeah, no, pashut, the Shulchan Aruch says it has to be done בנשימה אחת. And then you have teruah also, which the pashut is that it has to be done בנשימה אחת. The difficult part is the shevarim and the teruah together. Does that have to be בנשימה אחת, which is a tremendous big sugya, and with the help of the Ribono Shel Olam I will simplify it for you, and I’ll give it to you, so to speak, be’ezras Hashem, on a silver platter. In Shulchan Aruch, seif daled, the first de’ah, the first opinion in Shulchan Aruch is that you have to stop mamash. You literally have to stop in the shofar between the shevarim and the teruah. You have to stop. You have it? Go ahead, read Shulchan Aruch, de’ah rishonah, the first opinion. Go ahead. I will gimel shevarim uteruah de-tashrat. Yeah. Yesh omrim she’ein tzarich la’asosah בנשימה אחת. Ein tzarich, right? You have to stop. Oh, see. So the first sheet is, ein tzarich lasoisah. Okay, so read the Mishnah Berurah. So in that case, you should have to stop, yeah? So you're right, from the lashon of the Shulchan Aruch, mashma that you don't have to stop. But the way the Mishnah Berurah brings it down, that that's the way people do ginuchi, ganich and yululei yalil, they definitely do stop in the middle. So the implication is that you should. So keep on reading the Mishnah Berurah. What does he say? Huh? Lechatchilah you should stop, the other... Oh. So he says, therefore, you would say maybe it has to be that way, but it's lechatchilah b'di'eved. So what is lechatchilah b'di'eved? Yotzei, not yotzei, but it doesn't mean that you don't have to stop. So the Mishnah Berurah says lechatchilah means you have to stop, okay? So of course, right away when I said it, you questioned me, and you're right. I want you to question me, but you see, at the end of the day, I explained you the Shulchan Aruch properly. And when dei rishon is not pshat you could stop, but dei rishon is that you not could with a C, but should with a... no?

Wow, tremendous. You guys are gaonim in English. So instead of could, you switch it to should, all right? Now, is it b'diavad? Okay, I didn't say you're not yotzei b'diavad, but could. Could stop, okay? Could stop is wrong. It should stop. And should stop doesn't mean that it's me'akev b'diavad. That, רבי ... read the Mishnah Berurah, he's right. Okay, what's the de'ah rishonah? Shulchan Aruch brings a de'ah shniyah, and that is that it has to be done with one neshimah. You can't stop, okay? Go ahead, read the de'ah shniyah. Tzarich. Translate the word tzarich. Is there any translation that tzarich doesn't mean have to? Necessary, required? No, let's just give it need, because otherwise someone's going to start saying, Necessary. What's called necessary? Is it necessary that I...? The word is has to be, okay? Tzarich. A person has to learn, has to be means has to be. Good. So we have two shitos. Shitah rishonah is should be, and shitah shniyah should be what? B'shtei neshimos, right? And should be—I'm sorry, and has to be is the second shitah, has to be b'neshimah achas. According to the second shitah, if he was mafsik, a yotzei, and that's why I said has to be, zogt the Mishnah Berurah, se'if katan yud-ches, afilu b'diavad. So that's why I said, very important. I know. I just said, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know, it's not muchach. It's muchach that that's the true is different, I don't know. No, it's not muchach. Again, so read it again: aval truah shenechelekah l'shtayim. Any truah shenechelekah l'shtayim... All right, you're right, you're right. Maybe he's right. Okay, that's—I have to resign. It's possible I have to resign. Anybody ready to take over? In Lakewood, you'll have fifty people ready to fill in. Ready to fill in, standing and waiting and ready. It's okay, I'm not resigning that quickly. Okay, maybe you're right. I'll look it up again. It's all from memory, rabosai. It's possible, but I didn't say anything wrong. Truthfully, it's true that the true is not supposed to be divided. Okay, I'll look again at that Mishnah Berurah. I forgot a lashon of the Mishnah Berurah. Possible. Okay. Al kol panim, rabosai, according to the second shita, if a person was mafsik in Hayotzi, Mishnah Berurah, sif katan yud ches. Okay. So what's l'maaseh? If there's two days, what do you do? So the Shulchan Aruch says, I would like to make a pesharah. Pesharah is the best thing. We find all over in the Torah the best thing is to make pesharah, right? Dayanim are supposed to make pesharah. So let's make a pesharah. What's the pesharah that the Beis Yosef makes? So he says like this, that—nu, read, nu, what's the pesharah? Some of it you do b'dei neshimah achas, and some of it you do b'shtei neshimos. Yeah? You look at the Shar HaTziyun, sif katan yud ches. The Shar HaTziyun says, Hachra'ah zu toivah me'od. He likes very much. The Shar HaTziyun says, Haglatah zach, it's a good thing. You see the Shar HaTziyun, sif katan yud ches, on the bottom, it's the first one over there, yeah? Hachra'ah zu toivah. It's a tremendous—go ahead. Who's reading the lashon of the Shar HaTziyun? Go ahead, R' Moshe. I say R' Moshe; everybody can call out at once over here. Everybody's R' Moshe here. R' Moshe the baal koreh. Go ahead. Sif katan yud ches, in the middle over there. Sif katan yud ches, the Shar HaTziyun. Turn the page. Yeah, Mr. Bur likes it, a retzon zach. Whenever you have two opinions, the greatest thing is to be mekayem both opinions. Keep this in mind, because we're going to work with this later on. How to... we'll see, avada, we'll see, we'll talk, we'll talk, okay. We'll talk. We'll see what to do l'maaseh, okay. If you look at the Rama, you look at the Rama, the Rama says that the minhag is to do everything b'nei shimah. All right? B'shtei neshim, excuse me, b'shtei neshim, right? Okay, who's reading the Rama? Minhag ha-poshut la'asos hakol b'veis neshimah, v'ein l'shanos. Okay. The Avnei Nezer proves that the Rama is right.

There's all the richus, the siman taf mem daled, that the Ramaz gerecht, ay, the Mishloch Narach speaks beautiful psharei, he's tremendous, you know. And then you have two factions. The best thing is when they come together, democracy, Republicans with Democrats, l'havdil elef havdalos, vashteis, you're supposed to be fair and balanced. Acharei ha-rabim l'hatos, by party. That's the word I was looking for. Again, I was looking for the word bipartisan. Baruch Hashem didn't come to my mind. You see, I haven't listened to this bubbe maises in thirty years. I haven't listened to Democrats, Republicans, shigayon. Okay, b'kitzur, yeah, bipartisan. And that does the... the shprach today, you know, the shprach bipartisan. Okay, bipartisan. Let's see, you don't know. Okay, I unfortunately know because I heard once and then it sticks in my head. I have to learn how to forget things. That comes from the chisaron of a good memory. Okay, so Avnei Nezer comes along and says a helpesh for the answer, pshara, the best thing is the Rama. The closest thing we have to hachra from the Mishnah Berurah in this is the Mishnah Berurah seems to say that the minhag shelanu is the Rama. You see the top Mishnah Berurah on this Rama, right? Minhag shelanu, he calls it. Minhageinu, you hear? So he never said clearly to do what. The heilige Mishnah Berurah never said clearly what to follow, the Rama, because on the bottom in the Shaar HaTziyun he seems to like very much Yedim's minhag. Hard people like that. They like Yedim's minhag better. So do we follow Yedim's minhag in the Shaar HaTziyun? Is that the implication? Or the fact that in his Mishnah Berurah he writes it's minhageinu, that he wants us to follow the, what, the Rama. This is good food for thought, food for thought, and of course topic for... They call that controversy, topic for controversy. Mistama, there's a mahalach out there in yeshiva world. Mishburah is not clear. It's not very clear. You hear? Okay, so you remember I taught this to you. Remeisa lei. You see how I taught you the Mishnah Berurah? You're maskim? Mishnah Berurah says minhageinu, minhageinu. Someone's going to come and say minhageinu. But the Shaar HaTziyun, that p'sak says that he likes very much the Beis Yosef. So which one is it? Is it minhageinu, or is it what? Or is it the Shaar HaTziyun? Okay. Okay. They didn't say like a third set afterwards. We're not holding here. We're not holding. The vailu we're holding, yeah, yem yeramon nishramon. Okay. What is the pshara of the Shulchan Aruch? Some in some. You know, when you say some in some and you don't give clear which some are you talking about, you know what's going to happen. Some are going to say this, and some are going to say... Which some? You have a hundred keilos. How do you divide the hundred keilos? Want to read it? No? Okay. Why that way? Forget about only why that way. What are you called kiyas d'me'umad, and what are you called kiyas d'meyoshev? I don't know if you noticed, there's some—there's thirty in the beginning, and then in the Shemoneh Esrei there's another thirty, and then afterwards. What about the group of afterwards? What about those? Okay. So the Chazon Ish held that in the meyoshev, you do b'neshima achas. And in the amidah, you do it b'shtayim, Orach Chaim siman kuf lamed-vav, in the Chazon Ish. Avnei Nezer held punkt farkert. Huh? You don't know that the Chazon Ish paskened like the Rama? Yeah, we're going to get to that, b'vadai. Chazon Ish held very stark, and that's how all of Eretz Yisrael do it that way. Shitas haMechaber, they follow Shitas haMechaber. All of Eretz Yisrael follows that because the Chazon Ish was mar d'asra d'Eretz Yisrael. And therefore, and we'll soon say, I once sent the letter to Reb Chaim. I'll show you the letter. I'll show you the nusach of the letter. Al kol panim, in Eretz Yisrael, the Chazon Ish fearedayin the shitos haMechaber, and the way he said that you should divide it is mamash like the Mechaber says: the yeshiva ones are done b'neshim achas, and the amidah ones are done b'shtei neshimos. Fine. Avnei Nezer says he feels that according to the Mechaber's eitzah, the peshara, he holds you should actually do it farkert, that in the miyushiv you should do with two, with two neshimos, and in the amidah you should do with one. That was the shita of the Avnei Nezer, that the peshara is, even if you hold...

If you want to be machmir to do like Yarei Shamayim of the Shulchan Aruch, but you do the opposite. The first ones you do b'shtei neshimos, and the second one you do b'neshima achas. There's an interesting mahalach from the Mishnah Berurah, seif katan yud tes, which is somewhere in the middle. Okay, so remember, the Rama—we're not even sure if we pasken like the Rama. We might pasken like the Mechaber, that what? That you're supposed to split it. Sometimes you're supposed to do one neshima, and sometimes you're supposed to do two. So for which ones you do one, for which ones you do two? Seif katan yud tes. B'makom shetaiku—go ahead, Reb Paltiel—b'makom shetaikim tashrat, and tarat l'malchiyos, no? Seif katan yud tes. That's amazing. Avnei neizer. You know what it is? Everybody says, Avnei Neizer, right? You have to pasken not like the Shulchan Aruch. So what you do is you show them that it's not only the Avnei Neizer; it's the eilige Mishnah Berurah, tazdeh gezogt echad. What does he mean, the Mishnah Berurah? Some blow tashrat, tashat, and tarat by the amidah, and some just blow tashrat. Tekios shvarim teruah tekiah. Some blow after malchiyos, tashrat; after zichronos, tashrat; and after shofros, tashrat. So those that blow a full set, says the Mishnah Berurah, you can do Avnei Neizer in the Mechaber. Hameishi, you knew this? You know what it is? People don't pay attention. You know what it is? They don't pay attention to Mishnah Berurah. They only like the easy Mishnah Berurahs, the ones that you have to really pay attention and figure out what he's saying, and then, chap, what? He's being very calculated. Yeah? Yeah? Okay, so if someone came and told you, Krias d'ma'umed, shtei neshimos. So good, according to this you're supposed to have... The Velt doesn't know this. The Velt does the opposite. The other way is Krias d'ma'umed. The Krias d'meyushiv you do b'neshima achas. Krias d'ma'umed you do—what do you mean, what's in it? No, some just do tashrat. Malchiyos, tashrat. That's it, just tashrat for each thing. Like by the chassidim. Chassidim, they blow in the shteilas Shemoneh Esrei, so tashrat. That's it, they just do tashrat? In the Krias d'ma'umed. In the Krias d'ma'umed. No, in Krias d'meyushiv you blow thirty kolos, and in Krias d'ma'umed they just blow tashrat: tekiah, shevarim, teruah, tekiah, and that's all. They don't do the whole set. There's a minhag like that. That's two different shitos. How do you blow? How do you divide everything? That's why Mishnah Berurah brings it down. It's not my fault that the Mishnah Berurah brings down this minhag, and he paskens according to this minhag. And obviously it's not an absurd, obscure minhag. Kani reds a real minhag, no? I just told you there are people that after Malchiyos they blow tashrat, and after Zichronos they blow tashrat, and after what they blow tashrat. Zogt the Mishnah Berurah according to that shita, so in the me'umed they could blow everything b'neshima achas, and in the meyushivs they blow b'shtei neshimos. So maidi chiddush? It's amalei neizer. What's the chiddush? I don't know. Truthfully, I don't know, but that's what he says. Meaning, I have the Neizer goes through. I don't have to, I don't remember the whole ... about that. I'm also too tired for right now. But al kol panim, that's the Avnei Nezer, and remember that the Avnei Nezer is actually in this Mishnah Berurah. Chamisha, you knew this? Which one? Everybody picks up their eyes. All I have to say is chamisha, and everybody picks up their eyes. Okay. Stam a R' Moshe. Okay, so we have over here, rabosai, gevaldig, gevaldig, gevaldig chavrutא here. You're not going to say I didn't teach you good, the Mishnah Berurah. I taught you good, huh? Right, read the Cheshbon, yeah. Aha, aha, very good, aha. The problem is because you belong to the other one, the Sefarim. So if you only bought the Sefarim Teruah, so then that could be b'di'eved achas. I like that. Yeah, okay, that's the cheshbon. Okay, rabosai, look at the Sha'ar HaTziyun. I didn't remember it בעל פה. Sha'ar HaTziyun, which os? Let me bring this down. Do you have a pen? Someone give me a pen, I have to write this. See? Basi lelamed v'nimtza lomed.

Which is? Ayin, shin, tz. Which issur again is it? Ayin, yud, zayin. Okay, next. Good. Okay, so what's l'inyan halacha l'maaseh? L'maaseh, we still have a few more pages to go. We have so much to cover, and then you're gonna want me to cut it off at a quarter to nine, so let's move. L'inyan halacha l'maaseh, l'inyan halacha l'maaseh. Oh, forget about how we feel, because I said the we becomes very complicated, especially in Westgate. You say we in Westgate, which kehillah are you from? Oh, sorry. Now, l'inyan halacha l'maaseh, l'inyan halacha l'maaseh, what should I do? I can't play the game. I gotta say it as is. That's what you'll— by me you get raw truth. That's the way it is. L'inyan halacha l'maaseh, ayin Mishnah Berurah, se'if katan chaf. What does Mishnah Berurah pasken? Hakoel k'minhag hamakom. Two neshimos, one neshima, mechaber, Rama, what do you do? Hakoel k'minhag hamakom. What happens if there's no minhag hamakom? What happens if there's no minhag hamakom? So the Shulchan Aruch Harav says, do like the Shulchan Aruch, because Shulchan Aruch, like the Mishnah Berurah on the bottom says, is gevaldik. Makes sense, it makes sense. So the Shulchan Aruch Harav likes very much peshara, and therefore if there's no minhag— okay, before we get to Westgate, let me tell you what I wrote to Reb Chaim. Chasdei Hashem, bnei Brak, chasidishes, moreh d'horaah. And we even discussed if Chazon Ish's mareh d'ara d'Eretz Yisrael, if he's posik basar, we brought down mareh mekomos, yes, no, could you argue on the Chazon Ish? We had a whole discussion on this, and I showed you mareh mekomos. So I wrote to Rav Chaim the following: Bishleima in Bnei Brak, we have to follow the Chazon Ish. Legabei this whole sugya of shtei nashim is neshim achas, that he holds like the Shulchan Aruch. But maybe in Eretz Yisrael, Yerushalayim, what's the minhag hamakom over there? I understand minhag hamakom Bnei Brak, איכה. But is minhag hamakom in Yerushalayim like the Chazon Ish, or is the minhag hamakom in Yerushalayim like the Mishnah Berurah that says minhagenu? So he wrote back the following. Here are the words he wrote: B'makom merichami shlita ein eni posek. Makom... Yerushalayim, I don't get involved in Yerushalayim. So that was the hakarah. Even though I think in Eretz Yisrael, the old ... like in all the sefarim from Eretz Yisrael, they were Chazon Ish, and therefore they tend to do everything like the Shulchan Aruch, that b'shtei nashim is b'neshim achas by the first thirty, and b'shtei nashim is by the last thirty. Okay. B'makom that the minhag is neshimah achas, and the Baal Tekea made a mistake. The minhag was b'neshimah achas, but the Baal Tokea made a mistake. He couldn't do it. He started to blow, and then he stopped. So what's the halachah? So I write over here in my notes, things that I worked on in the past: Yatza. Why? Especially if he was tokea b'ma'omed b'shtei neshimos, according to many shitos, the hachraah tov is to do that anyway. So even if the minhag is that way, I could hear that the minhag can't be that you're not yotzei b'makom there's a din in Shulchan Aruch that everybody likes. So it could be in the first kiyus, so that becomes a shtikel chiddush, because there is a shita that holds that you're allowed to blow b'shtei neshimos. But I don't know if we take on that shita l'halacha, because maybe the pshat in the pshara is that we like it, right? What's the taich in the pshara? Maybe pshara means because we like that shita, but we try to do all the shitos. Or the pshat in the pshara is, no, we don't like that shita, and that pshat is only by me'umad we do it. But al kol panim by me'umad, if you made a mistake, even if the minhag hamakom was to do it b'neshima achas, you're still yotzei. Or maybe not. So I saw the Daas Torah from the Marsham says not like that, but I don't hear it, I don't know. My way of understanding halacha, if there's a mamash shita that holds you're allowed to do it b'neshima achas—I'm sorry, b'shtei neshimos—and there's even on that a minhag that the me'umadim are done b'shtei neshimos, so even if the minhag is that your minhag is to do b'neshima achas, you can't say you're not yotzei. The Marsham says not like that. The Marsham says if you do k'neged your minhag...

That's toleh l'marsham, okay? So, אין that's toleh l'marsham, you're not yotzei. Huh? Marsham. Oh, let me tell you. Marsham was from the gedolei haposkim. Normal Marsham. Marsham is mamish... What's, right? The Marsham, who argues the Shaalos Teshuvos Marsham. What are you talking about? It's like Chasam Sofer, Maram Shik, Marsham, gedolei hacharonim. Okay. What happens the other way around? He was nichshal, and he was to'eh, and he was toka b'neshima achas when the minhag was b'shtayim. So this is a lot worse, right? Because the minhag is to do it b'shtayim, and then he went and he did it b'neshima achas. No? Yotzei, not yotzei. We said that b'di'eved yotzei, eh? But the minhag? Think of it the other way around, where the minhag is to blow, where the minhag is to blow b'neshima achas, right? And you blew, and you made a mistake, and you blew b'shtei neshimos, right? So we're clear. But what about the other way around? If the minhag is b'shtei neshimos, right, so it's not l'kuvah at all, so you would say it shouldn't be a problem. Let's take a look at the Mishnah Berurah, se'if katan yud-zayin and se'if katan chaf. No? Oh. So what about where the minhag? What happens where the minhag? That's ikar d'dina. So let's look at se'if katan chaf. See? Speak it out. You like it. I say good pshat in the Mishnah Berurah, ah? One shtickeleh Mishnah Berurah, the heilige Chofetz Chaim is talking about mikra din. If I went and I did shelo k'hilchah ikar hadinah, and I blew b'neshima achas when it was supposed to be b'shtei neshimos, yotzei. What about after the minhag is that way? Still yotzei. All right? So it's much worse where the minhag is b'shtei neshimos and you blew it b'neshima achas. That's much better, I mean. And it's much worse if the minhag is b'shtei neshimos and you blew b'neshima achas. Now let's go back to a little bit of an easy part. We have five more minutes. I don't want the people to run away and say, Ah, this shiur was too difficult. So let's make it easier a little bit now, okay? Tired. Tired today? What? I'm tired. I'm tired. Today I'm tired, rabosai. I'm trying, I'm pushing, and I always will, because I owe it to the Ribono Shel Olam. I owe Him so much. If you knew how much I owe Him. Okay, rabosai, listen good. What's two neshimos? What's called two neshimos, yeah? What's the translation of two neshimos? So let's look at the Mishnah Berurah, se'if katan yud ches. Nu? There's a shtickele chazonish how to learn up this Mishnah Berurah. A shtickele Chazonish how to learn up this Mishnah Berurah. What do you see in this Mishnah Berurah? That it has to be mamash b'shtei neshimos, huh? What do you see? Who's reading the Mishnah? Go ahead, read the Mishnah Berurah for us. ... shvarim teruah ... ... teruah l'shteihen, dafka. ... teruah. ... ... ... Right. ... Okay. So what do you see from this Mishnah Berurah? That it has to be—shtei neshimos means literally two neshimos. The Chazon Ish sees in this Mishnah Berurah, the Mishnah Berurah held that it has to be literally two neshimos, which means shvarim teruah is tu, tu, tu, tu, tu, tu—two neshimos, mamash separate. Brisker Rav held—

Like the soul song, that you have to blow three and take a breath and go weiter, says the Chazon Ish. But I disagree with the Mishnah Berurah. Kuf lamed vav, because he says that the chiluk is not koach echad. That's not the difference. The difference is neshimah achas or shtei neshimos. Huh? That's called neshimah achas. So what's shtei neshimos? What's called neshimah achas? You didn't take a breath, so what's shtei neshimos? You did take a breath. That's how he learns. That's how Chazon Ish says. Michlal lav ata shomea. Reb Elia, you with us? Reb Elia, yeah? So what's shtei neshimos? Shtei neshimos is two breaths' worth, two breaths' worth, yeah? Says the Chazon Ish, nein, nein, nit azoi. Even according to the shita that it's shtei neshimos, it doesn't mean shtei neshimos; it means shtei koiches. You have to stop physically, not neshimah-wise. Right, he says you're not supposed to. According to the Chazon Ish, even shtei neshimos means no breath in the middle. What's the pshat? Because the Chazon Ish has a very interesting shita in what's called neshimah achas. The Chazon Ish held neshimah achas is meriya mitoch shever. Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo. Meriya mitoch shever. So what's called shtei neshimos? Koach sheini, just stopping. Pashut. The Chazon Ish held neshimah achas is meriya mitoch shever. So shtei neshimos means shtei koiches. On the Mishnah Berurah, neshima achas is shtei koiches. So what's shtei neshimos? Actually taking in two breaths. So this is the machlokes, the Mishnah Berurah and the Chazon Ish. I could tell you that if you learn the Chazon Ish properly, it's not so clear that that's what the Chazon Ish means. I think the oilam should do themselves justice to look at the Chazon Ish, and they'll notice that the Chazon Ish might not mean meriv b'toch sheva, what everybody thinks he means. Some learn that the Chazon Ish means that it has to be, doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo, from the shvarim you have to blow the teruah. I don't know if he means that. He could mean that it's mikoach echad. It doesn't have to mean mitoch. There's two ways how you could blow meriv b'toch sheva. If you learn pshat in the Chazon Ish that neshima achas is koach echad, so you don't hear more than that it's mikoach echad. You don't have to have the teruah mitoch sheva, what the Vilna thinks, meriv b'toch sheva. Okay, I'll tell you what we're going to do. Obviously it's Ma'ariv. We'll daven Ma'ariv. We'll finish this five, ten minutes after Ma'ariv, okay? We'll just a few more minutes after Ma'ariv, and we'll finish those.